General: "It's fun to shoot some people!" Friday, February 4, 2005
#32
Posted 07 February 2005 - 05:59 PM
Exactly the point.
Demonizing enemies(whether you are secular or religious) is the common practice of tyrants and developing justifications such as "well they beat their wives" or "they make women wear scarves" or "they make their little boys watch football" or howabout "they don't believe in God" or howabout "they believe in God" it doesn't matter what supposed bullshit excuse there is. Mindless fascists go for it, because it makes them feel powerful to think they are hardcore killers...and then the govenment comes out a few days later to demand those services.
Jordan endlessly excuses all behavior of fascists not necessarily because he's political, or a fascist, just like most people do, but because he feels morally superior, it makes him feel like he has the world all figured out. For people like this it is as simple as saying, well, so they are killing and torturing our enemies, so what, they're enemies.
He's right though, we aren't being total nazis on the Iraqis, but we are doing it to are own people too. American Soldiers are being medically experimented on, and used as guinea pigs for testing vaccines, drugs and microchip implants. They are coming back sick, dying and the US GOVERNMENT is denying them aid. For all the supposed "support" the fascists are giving "the troops" they also turn their back on them, and have also betrayed them all. Most of those guys over there have been there way too long, they are mistreated by our own government and Rumsfeld says to them, 'too bad you don't have the right equiptment tough cookies' when they demand simple supplies. Entire units have refused duty on the grounds they are not equipped. An entire ship of the Brit navy refused to take the vaccines, and threw them overboard. Others have deserted, gone AWOL, and fled to Canada on ground that the war is unjust. Others have written thousands of letters demanding Rumsfeld's resignation, and while Rumsfeld lies and arrogantly ignores all pleas, many of these same people are getting sick from mysterious illnesses.
Yes, the fascists pat the troops on the back for killing and torture, but when it comes to human and practical needs, they betray them. Hows that for support.
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)
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#33
Posted 07 February 2005 - 07:17 PM
It's a moral booster. What, you want them to cry and get all reflective in War Time?
A soldier can either a) turn off all emotions
![cool.gif](http://www.chefelf.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
I mean, if they enjoy it, does that make them evil? Does it mean they would enjoy killing innocent civillians? I'm not making that leap.
This post has been edited by Jordan: 07 February 2005 - 07:36 PM
#34
Posted 07 February 2005 - 07:31 PM
War isn't football. Yes, distorting reality helps coerce men into doing immoral deeds.
"It's a moral booster."
Holy shit, this statement is unbelievable.
"What, you want them to cry and get all reflective in War Time?"
Have you ever talked to a veteran you scumbag? Ever seen them cry? Ever seen them curled up in a little ball on the floor full of terrifying regret? I HAVE.
Listening to people like you makes me sick. When you know personally these men, then go ahead, make these sickening statements. listening to your shit added to my own memories of relatives and their postwar horror makes me want to vomit right now, and I am very serious. You scumbag.
"I mean, if they enjoy it, does that make them evil?"
Yes you are GODDAMN RIGHT. And to hell with you for saying it. I wish you could have met some people I have known.
"Does it mean they would enjoy killing innocent civillians? I'm not making that leap."
You aren't maknig any DISTINCTION either and neither does MX or general fucktard.
An "enemy" might as well be a civilian. General Asshole didn't say, "enjoy shooting enemy combat troops who are trying to kill me" he made a judgement on non-strategic people he considers enemies: civilians.
Jordan, do me a favor join the army. Go kill civilians, instead of talking about it. If you want to be on the side of men who enjoy killing, then be on their side, do it.
This post has been edited by Hannibal: 07 February 2005 - 07:39 PM
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)
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#35
Posted 07 February 2005 - 07:36 PM
I think the situation is different in this war. I saw a great TV series called "Band of Brothers". It tells the story of Easy Company during WW2 as they fought their way through German lines.
In the special features at the end of the show, there are interviews with the real soldiers in Easy Company. One soldier said, after the German troops surrendered and were contained, he talked with some of them, shared smokes with them etc.. He thought to himself, if they meet in a different situation (not war) they may have been friends. He realized that not all the German troops were fanatical Nazi's.
With the situation in Iraq, I couldn't see the enemies the US are fighting now, being firends in a different situation. Insurgents will always hate Americans. They feel the Yanks invaded them, and hate them for it. It's a war based on pure hate. So I can see them enjoying the death count.
#36
Posted 07 February 2005 - 07:41 PM
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)
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#37
Posted 07 February 2005 - 07:43 PM
Hannibal, you're a bag of hot air. You're just sounding off for the sake of.
You make stupid statements, like how I get all my political info from TV.
You think you're so pious? You can't even abide by chat room forum rules.
This post has been edited by Jordan: 07 February 2005 - 07:45 PM
#38
Posted 07 February 2005 - 07:45 PM
I hope one day you get what you deserve. After ceaselessly defending the actions of the immoral, I hope that a soldier kills your family, rapes your wife and daughter and tortures and then kills you.
And I hope he enjoys it.
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)
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#39
Posted 07 February 2005 - 07:47 PM
Get a life.
#40
Posted 07 February 2005 - 07:57 PM
Basically, the world divides into two groups. There are those who believe that causing human suffering on purpose can be morally acceptable and those who do not.
Those in the first group often disagree on what counts as a proper reason to cause human suffering on purpose--that is, as a goal or deliberate means. Among the many rationalizations given in modern times, some of the most common are:
• to do "justice," to defend "honor," or to gain "respect"
• to modify behavior
• to "send a message"
• to rid society of "undesirable" elements, defined in various ways.
Though people in the "pro-suffering" group differ (sometimes violently) on the details, they all agree on the central moral point--that purposefully hurting people can be morally right.
Since you probably hate Jesus, Christians, Jews and Muslims,
how about Socrates?
Statements Attributed to Socrates (in Dialogues of Plato):
"Then we must no do wrong in return, or do evil to anyone in the world, however, we may be treated by them. . . . I mean we start from this rule--it is never right to do any injustice, or to do injustice in return, or, when one is evilly treated, to defend oneself by doing evil in return. . . . I have always believed it, and do so now." Plato, Crito 49A in Great Dialogues of Plato
* * * * *
"Then it is not the work of a just man to injure, Polemarchos, whether to injure a friend or anyone else[FN 1], anyone--but that is the work of the unjust man."
"I think that you are absolutely right, Socrates."
"Then if one says it is right to give back what is owing to each, and means by this that injury is owing to his enemies from the just man and benefit to his friends, the one who said it is no wise man; for he did not speak the truth, since it has been shown that to injure anyone is never just anywhere." Plato, Republic 335B-C in Great Dialogues of Plato
--------------------
Plato is the first person known to have said this.
This post has been edited by Hannibal: 07 February 2005 - 07:58 PM
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)
Enjoy this Tribute to Nazism...(Mp3)
#41
Posted 07 February 2005 - 07:58 PM
Have you ever served in the military Hannibal? Have you ever gone through the training that a Soldier or a Marine or Seaman or an Airman have gone through? Do you know that regardless of what job they train for, they are first and foremost infantry. I have said it before and i will say it again, I served in the US Marine Corps. I was trained to kill. That was what my job was. If my believing that it is kill or be killed makes me a facist. If my decision to remove the human element from the person I am shooting at, because that is what gets me through the night makes a facist, if my putting the thought of someone losing a son or a daughter,a husband, or whatever out of my head makes me a facist, then so be it. The truth is you do not know me from Adam. You have no idea what I have done for my country, What sacrafices my brothers and sisters have made for this country. It is great that you know people and have talked to people, wonderful. Remember the people who died for the right to speak freely. The very right you seem use generously. I fought for my country, because my commander told me to. I refuse to believe that all the work I had done was in vain. I refuse to believe that I am an evil person because I was doing my job. If anyone wants to compare me to a God damned Nazi, then I suppose that is your right, the right that the soldiers and marines before me died to uphold and protect, you ignorant man. Go ahead and tell all the soldiers who come back from Iraq that they are horrible killers. That they do not know the real reason they were there. Tell them that they are puppets for the American corporate machine. Tell them they killed thousands of people for oil and money. You do not have to believe in this war, no one is asking you too do that. I do not think this war is right, but I believe that the US troops are there to do a job, and do it the best they can, so they can survive and come home to see their families again. But fuck all that, right hannibal, they are a bunch of facist baby killers who do not respect human life. I pity you. I do. I do not care what your response is to this anymore. Call me all the names you want. It will take far worse than what you can say to hurt me.
#42
Posted 07 February 2005 - 07:59 PM
how about Socrates?""""
I hate you Hannibal, I hate you, and only you. I'm ignoring you from now till eternity.
So long
![smile.gif](http://www.chefelf.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
This post has been edited by Jordan: 07 February 2005 - 07:59 PM
#43
Posted 07 February 2005 - 08:01 PM
A proud family value if there was one.
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)
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#44
Posted 07 February 2005 - 08:06 PM
You are sad. I feel sorry for you.
#45
Posted 07 February 2005 - 08:31 PM
I don't have to, many soldiers HAVE figured this out.
An honorable soldier kills those who would kill him.
It is an act of self-defense.
The complications of war blur distinctions between murder and self-defense, this is why war should not be taken lightly.
When the Commander in Chief says "Bring it on" like a street gangster, he is not acting in the interest of those who have pledged to defend their country. He is making juvenile threats to enemies, coaxing them to endanger the lives of his men more than they might have already. This is a bad leader. This is taking war lightly. laughing about killing and torture is taking war lightly.
The responsiblity of taking a mans life rests with those who have the ability and the training, but the attitude of those with that responsibility and training should never be that their role, their purpose is to "enjoy" killing.
Words from soldiers like yourself DISHONOR those who take that responsibility seriously. They are trained to KILL. It is a responsibility not a hobby, not a fun thing, not something to brag about and to be enjoyed.
They are trained to KILL, to stop people from killing VAST numbers of their countrymen, they are not trained to KILL to enjoy it, or to rid society or the world of unwanted elements.
The more recent and growing attitude of military men who brag about their responsibility is an atrocity. Laughing, enjoying, racking up the numbers, and expressing euphamisms for murder which soldiers exuse as moral is a sickening prospect for the future. Contempt for civilians who do not have such responsiblity is also growing.
Not all soldiers behave this way, so do not presume to represent the military as a whole. I have heard many soldiers, (I know someone fighting in IRAQ right now) dishonor their fellow men by behaving in this way, and it is sad, but,
I do not feel sorry for them.
Soldiers who take pride in killing are not honorable men. The men I know who killed suffer for having done so in Vietnam, within themselves.
The government you so highly speak of could care less about these men, as well as those fighting in Iraq.
The men I feel sorry for are those who pledged their lives to defend civilians and fought in a war, only to get sick, and recieve no assistance from the government(not the civilian masses) for their sacrifice.
Spare me the babykiller routine pal, I realize your contempt for civilians is based on this kind of rhetoric that is passed around, and although there are still some idiotic liberals who carry on like this, but you aren't getting off that easily with me.
You came into this group spouting about killing families and you get what you deserve, even the retarded general never suggested we kill the wife-slapper's wife.
Not, say"I would kill them and their families"
This post has been edited by Hannibal: 07 February 2005 - 08:48 PM
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)
Enjoy this Tribute to Nazism...(Mp3)