Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows **SPOILERS** Post Release Discussion **SPOILERS**
#109
Posted 10 August 2007 - 01:08 AM
I'm soon anticipating a Harry Potter website equivalent to the Super Shadow one. If you haven't seen it already, Mr.Bond, you should take a look...
www.supershadow.com
Read the portion on exclusive George Lucas interviews.
www.supershadow.com
Read the portion on exclusive George Lucas interviews.
This post has been edited by Storm: 10 August 2007 - 01:08 AM
#111
Posted 10 August 2007 - 03:14 PM
How much Logic do we require in a childrens fantasy book about Magic?
Like in Star Wars, Rowling is at pains throughout the series to show that the technology of the magic tricks is insignificant next to the power of ordinary human qualities. Early in the the first book Dumbledore says something along the lines of "Ah, music. A magic beyond all we do here at Hogwarts," and stresses for the next six books that love, self sacrifice, frienship, loyalty etc. are all more powerful than wand waving and spells. In the end, Harry defeats Voldemort, the most powerful wizard ever, using only these more basic forces.
Harry more or less explains wand logic to Voldemort immediately before they duel for the last time, and Voldemort doesn't understand it. Voldemort also doesn't understand why he would be better off showing some remorse there at the end; the reason is that he never stops believing that the Death Star is the ultimate power in the universe. He needs to remember that the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force, and all that rubbish. However, the wand logic makes sense to me anyway, and is also very clever. Voldemort never defeats Harry, in the way that Vader never defeats Obi wan Kenobi. And in the end, Harry doesn't kill anyone, yet still achieves total victory. A satisfactory ending.
I disagree that Rowling made it all up as she went along. Rowling must have realized somewhere along the way that there were going to be many books in her series, and began to plot accordingly. I believe it was probably after the original book won the 1997 National Book award, the Smarties prize, the Publishers Weekly Best Book, the Parenting Book of the Year, the Booklist Editors Choice, and who knows what else around the world. It must have been obvious at that point she was onto a winner. I assume she cares more about the quality of her own story and characters than any fan would.
Like in Star Wars, Rowling is at pains throughout the series to show that the technology of the magic tricks is insignificant next to the power of ordinary human qualities. Early in the the first book Dumbledore says something along the lines of "Ah, music. A magic beyond all we do here at Hogwarts," and stresses for the next six books that love, self sacrifice, frienship, loyalty etc. are all more powerful than wand waving and spells. In the end, Harry defeats Voldemort, the most powerful wizard ever, using only these more basic forces.
Harry more or less explains wand logic to Voldemort immediately before they duel for the last time, and Voldemort doesn't understand it. Voldemort also doesn't understand why he would be better off showing some remorse there at the end; the reason is that he never stops believing that the Death Star is the ultimate power in the universe. He needs to remember that the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force, and all that rubbish. However, the wand logic makes sense to me anyway, and is also very clever. Voldemort never defeats Harry, in the way that Vader never defeats Obi wan Kenobi. And in the end, Harry doesn't kill anyone, yet still achieves total victory. A satisfactory ending.
I disagree that Rowling made it all up as she went along. Rowling must have realized somewhere along the way that there were going to be many books in her series, and began to plot accordingly. I believe it was probably after the original book won the 1997 National Book award, the Smarties prize, the Publishers Weekly Best Book, the Parenting Book of the Year, the Booklist Editors Choice, and who knows what else around the world. It must have been obvious at that point she was onto a winner. I assume she cares more about the quality of her own story and characters than any fan would.
#113
Posted 10 August 2007 - 09:18 PM
Well put, Az. I am a fan of the work in general, and try to avoid the nitpicking since of course they're children's books and like you say the basic themes are about family and love and the gentler emotions. Again, you put all of that very well.
I don't doubt that Rowling plotted her last books in advance; you can see that she had a long story in mind when she wrote the fourth one. That a long story had been plotted is evident in 5 and 6, both of which have incomplete endings and promises of big things to come. I would say however it's innocent to assume she had any longterm plans when she wrote any of the first three, since the elements borrowed from those books are shoehorned into the last ones (Example: if Dumbledore was aware that Tom Riddle had put some of his soul into his diary, and that was the source of the trouble Ginny was having, why did he wait four years before mentioning Horcruxes to Harry?).
I will also go out on a limb and say that these three simpler, more self-contained books are the best of the series. I did like the last one, but would have liked it even better had it completed a story begun in two better books. As it is, it was a decent conclusion to the series and a strong apology for the dogshit she'd spread out the previous two years.
I don't doubt that Rowling plotted her last books in advance; you can see that she had a long story in mind when she wrote the fourth one. That a long story had been plotted is evident in 5 and 6, both of which have incomplete endings and promises of big things to come. I would say however it's innocent to assume she had any longterm plans when she wrote any of the first three, since the elements borrowed from those books are shoehorned into the last ones (Example: if Dumbledore was aware that Tom Riddle had put some of his soul into his diary, and that was the source of the trouble Ginny was having, why did he wait four years before mentioning Horcruxes to Harry?).
I will also go out on a limb and say that these three simpler, more self-contained books are the best of the series. I did like the last one, but would have liked it even better had it completed a story begun in two better books. As it is, it was a decent conclusion to the series and a strong apology for the dogshit she'd spread out the previous two years.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
#114
Posted 11 August 2007 - 12:34 AM
QUOTE (civilian_number_two @ Aug 10 2007, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I will also go out on a limb and say that these three simpler, more self-contained books are the best of the series. I did like the last one, but would have liked it even better had it completed a story begun in two better books. As it is, it was a decent conclusion to the series and a strong apology for the dogshit she'd spread out the previous two years.
And, by "dogshit", you mean...
#120
Posted 12 August 2007 - 07:09 PM
QUOTE (Storm @ Aug 12 2007, 12:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Rowling got a little too caught up in "love stories" between people. Maybe that is appealing to pre-teens, but not to a "man's man" like myself. I wanted to see car engines, girls oil wrestling in bikinis, and kung fu.
I thought she did a poor job with the Harry/Ginny romance but that's just me.
I am the Fisher King.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.