[J m HofMarN]

It's a well known fact that George Lucas is a fan of unnecessary prophecies and inconsistencies. However I found one recently that really bugs me. Willow was one of my favorite fantasy movies as a kid, up there with Labrynth and The Princess Bride. However now I've noticed a problem: Elora Dannon never gets off her infantile ass to do ANYTHING.

Let me tell you what I mean. There is apparently a prophecy about Elora that she's going to kill the evil witch. That I can understand. She might very well grow up to be very powerful and kill whatever the witch's name is. However, this does not occur. Willow (or was it Razel?) kills the witch. Elora just kinda lays on an altar. So now the prophecy that was the basis for the whole story is completely bunk.

At no time did Elora participate in any way or do anything that could have caused the death of the evil witch. The most devastating attack she unleashes during the whole movie was throwing up on one of the hobbits or whatever they are. However, when she meets the woman she's supposed to kill she can't even summon up this sort of an attack. I guess its only a once a week special move.

So in the final scene of the movie Willow kills the witch and then goes home and he's a hero. Elora Dannon is apparently completely forgotten. It's kind of odd, really. Plus I've kind of noticed that the Madmartigen guy is a lot like Han Solo and his relationship with the Sorcha chick bears an odd resemblance to the one with Leia.

[civilian_number_two]

OMG: I was way too old to have the fond memories of WILLOW that a lot of folk have. I thought the whole thing was a sad, tired ripoff of STAR WARS, and STAR WARS is so cookie-cutter generic it should never be ripped off. Of course Val Kilmer is Han Solo, and Wicket is Luke Skywalker, and Joanne Whalley is Leia, and the old guy from the Sid and Marty Kroft show is like Ben Kenobi. The villain is a woman: what a twist! But her chief henchperson is still a guy in a goofy mask.

Quest, secret baby (plans), and two wisecrackng sidekick pixies/peasants/droids. What was it? It was THE HIDDEN FORTRESS again, this time slightly more literally.

I remember seeing that on oening night with my kid brother and we had a good time. I also remember that the goofy sword-flipping antics and the bit where they slide down the snowy mountain on a shield were my favorite parts.

PS: The way they bring Madmartigan along, by freeing him from a difficult situation based on his own promises that his services will be valuable, is only slightly tweaked from Han Solo's decision to take on Ben to get himself out of a tight spot with a loan shark. I am frankly amazed you're only bringing this up now.

This post has been edited by civilian_number_two: 18 February 2005 - 01:15 PM

[Jordan]

I loved willow, I think I was in grade 3 at the time. I loved it like I loved GI JOE the movie. Sure it's filled with flaws, but these things can be over looked by a small kid. So there is my justification for not hating the movie.

The guy in the goofy mask was KAEL. I thought he was awsome back in the day, he reminded me of skeletor. Watching the movie now, I realized he's not so great. All that armour weighted down the actor so that he moved liked a slug in battle. All he really did is hark orders and yell.

"find the child"
"destroy him"
"kill him"
"get them"
"arrrrrg"

The comical relief by the two brownies was far better than that of the SW droids. They get drunk, and steal, and make fun of Mad Martigen. How dare you compare their humor to that of C3P0!

I own the movie on DVD. Did you know that film was the first movie to use computers to aid special effects? The scene where the old women turns into a variety of animals was done by computers. Metamorphises of the old lady on screen by means of computers helped seed teh coming CGI revolution. The term 'morphing' was coined by Dennis Muren (head of ILM), who helped write the software for the scene. ILM is the same team that did Starwars, infact, I think Lucas owns them.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 18 February 2005 - 03:11 PM

[Lord Aquaman]

Prophecies are evil, but I still have fond memories of Willow, the first movie I ever saw in a theater.

[Paladin]

I never watched Willow. Maybe it's there in some local video store for me to rent, but I'm not sure if I want to.

I did, however, play the video arcade game of Willow and I still have it on two emulator formats (Callus and MAME). From the game, I think that Willow killed the witch since you couldn't choose whether to play that warrior guy (was he Madmartigen, by any chance?) during that level.

That's all I know, and since you've brougt up the issue I guess your right about it. However, I think I would have to disagree about the prophesy being unnessesary... it was needed to give the baby some importance and give the witch a motivation to kill her, after all. But I guess when Willow took care of the witch, her purpose was more or less fulfilled and she really wouldn't be all THAT much needed in the future.

[Slade]

OMG: I was way too old to have the fond memories of WILLOW that a lot of folk have.  I thought the whole thing was a sad, tired ripoff of STAR WARS, and STAR WARS is so cookie-cutter generic it should never be ripped off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correction, Civ: Yes it should - Space Balls.

[civilian_number_two]

I'm sure I'm the only guuy here who thought that SPACEBALLS came out about five years too late and was therefore not very funny on release. I guess to a video generation, who saw it on the same shelf as STAR WARS, it plays better. But IMO STAR WARS was played out long before SPACEBALLS came out.

However, yes. Touche.

[Chefelf]

I'm sure I'm the only guuy here who thought that SPACEBALLS came out about five years too late and was therefore not very funny on release.  I guess to a video generation, who saw it on the same shelf as STAR WARS, it plays better.  But IMO STAR WARS was played out long before SPACEBALLS came out.

However, yes. Touche.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, that's long been a problem of Mel Brooks. He's not exactly on target. IT did come out in 1987! Even 1983, after the saga was complete, it would have been too late. Most decent parodies were out by 1980.

But, you know, as a ten year old it was top notch stuff.

[Just your average movie goer]

I didn't like Space Balls and I think it, along with Mel Brooks, is highly overrated. For the most part, it wasn't even parodying its source material. It was just making random crap up. Some of it was funny but most of it was tedious.

And Willow...

How can anyone have fond memories of that movie? Doesn't anybody remember the cringe-inducing old lady punch up at the end of the film?

Again, like Space Balls, there were some good scenes... but some doesn't cut it. To have a good movie, really all the scenes should be good or most of them at the very least.

[Hannibal]

There was a time before the video generation, where a parody COULD come out years after the initial release, because the public was still involved, as they were with Star Wars.

Gone with the Wind would be rereleased in theaters over and over and over and over, along with 2001, the Wild Bunch, Dr.Zhivago and every Robert Redford film, and so on, people re-experienced classics at the theater, not just in "second run" but movies were just around, if they were popular, and stayed in public consciousness longer than 10 seconds.

Mel Brooks and his parodies, like the Frankenstein thing, are based on that reality. By 1987, however, which he noted in his film, video took over.

Now films are gone in two weeks if they don't do well and are in video in three months.

If films do well, they might be rereleased during a Holiday, and then its on to special edition DVDs.

Nothing is rereleased again, unless its a George Lucas re-edit.

Spaceballs wasn't late, it was acting on another era, and commented on a new era, including pointing at star wars.

Yes there have been always a sequel or two, but films used to remain in the public consciouness for a long time. Those days are over now, and movies are like video games.