True, he could have explained more about Syfo Dias in the movie. But, I don't think he should go into much detail for him. He isn't really a big important character. I know we would all like to know why he ordered the cloone army, how he was killed...etc. But, that would, in a sense, make the movie too long. I would also reccomend reading Lybrinth of Nightmare, if you want to know more about Master Syfo Dias.
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#46
Posted 22 May 2005 - 08:19 PM
True, he could have explained more about Syfo Dias in the movie. But, I don't think he should go into much detail for him. He isn't really a big important character. I know we would all like to know why he ordered the cloone army, how he was killed...etc. But, that would, in a sense, make the movie too long. I would also reccomend reading Lybrinth of Nightmare, if you want to know more about Master Syfo Dias.
#47
Posted 22 May 2005 - 08:21 PM
I'm sorry you couldn't have been alongside me for Ep III. You would have been treated to some of my best cringes to date!
Ep II was particularly painful. I think Jeff's favorite part was my reaction to Jango saying, "Boba!" I hadn't been prepared for that and I wasn't equipped to deal with it.
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#48
Posted 22 May 2005 - 08:43 PM
i suppose you're right. but the problem is i don't care enough about the PT to read PT EU. I cared enough about the OT to pick up Shadows of the Empire, Truce at Bakura, Courtship of Princess Leia, Zhan Trilogy, and almost all of the Rogue Squadron series.
i just don't want to read Labyrinth of Nightmare because i can't stand the PT universe. If its bad, its bad. If its good, its worse, because then i just get pissed that PT EU was better than PT canon, and if the characters were good, ticked off at how much the movie characters sucked. sorry dude
#49
Posted 23 May 2005 - 12:45 AM
I was dreading this sort of reply. Mind you, in addition to what JAWF said also not everywhere in the world they care enought to translate and publish these novels, because people don't care enough to read them. Basically they want to see film and that's all.
Anyway, if Syfo Dias is not that important, why bother with him at all? Why bother with Count Dooku, I mean, look at him, story and plotwise he turned out to be a totally expendable character. He was laudly established as a plausible villain in AOTC, only to be killed within ten minutes in ROTS without his saying more than two sentences. Lucas did a Peter Jackson with him, I wonder what poor Mr Lee must think about bein killed at the beginning of every sequel he is in
Anyway, the reasn WHY the Clone Army was created is the fundamental thing - where all these white bearmoured men came from? We are not being told, or being told by some obscure awful novel from EU. I strongly object to my money being siphoned like that
#50
Posted 23 May 2005 - 02:28 AM
Having just finished watching AoTC on television this evening, I thought the explanation was needed. I'll be the first to admit that I'm by no means a Star Wars expert, but the average person viewing the movies isn't one either, and without a solid explanation it felt like a bad case of deus ex machina to me.
"Oh, look! We just so happened to have discovered a massive army of clones at the same time the enemy has created a massive army of droids! How fortunate!"
Some say that it was apparent in RoTS that Dooku ordered the clones, but a great many more say they didn't find it apparent at all. And as this forum is almost exclusively populated by people with high intelligence who know their Star Wars stuff, I'd say that it definitely wasn't shown well enough for the average viewer to get it.
How the clones were discovered in AoTC also seems quite dubious to me, given it was just Obi Wan trying to find out where a dart had come from. If Obi Wan hadn't bothered trying to track down the owner of the dart (and if he hadn't asked help from Yoda, who in turn asked help from a five-year-old), no one would have known about the clones and the Jedi would have been doomed in that arena. Something more pressing and important should have taken Obi Wan there, or else it's just a stupidly contrived plot point like you'd find in an HP book. I just don't think anything was handled well in the clones story line, even using every bit of information taken from any of the movies and throwing it all together.
I can't recall anything from the original movies being left with so many loose ends even between movies, let alone at the very ending of the story line.
#51
Posted 23 May 2005 - 08:35 AM
That never occured to me. Huh. Interesting.
#52
Posted 24 May 2005 - 06:08 AM
I didnt think that chefelf went in wanting to hate the film, only that he'd got himself into a position where it would be difficult for him to do anything other than bash the film in his (admittedly very funny) reasons to hate list.
I mean, didnt you start writing them before you had even seen the film, chefelf?
Perhaps i'm way off the mark with this, but its just my perception.
Now then, dont get me wrong, there are things in this film that are badly done, theres things that I wouldve done differently. None of those are enough for me to dislike the film though, and the same goes for all the others, the OT included. I personally thought that i've always been honest about thinking there are a lot of mistakes in the films, sorry if that didnt come off.
#53
Posted 24 May 2005 - 06:39 AM
The reason it doesn't come off, jariten, is that you virtually never admit to these mistakes when you're challenged on them. Your insistence on dreaming up the most insanely convoluted explanations for all the blatant plot holes and inconsistencies in the PT has become legendary in this forum. If you simply liked the Prequels in their own right I could understand (OK, no I couldn't, but I could at least accept it), but how you can seriously claim that this stuff makes sense - or fits in properly with the OT - is utterly beyond me.
Anyway, I don't agree with you about Chefelf being unable to do anything but bash the films - especially the idea that he'd started writing the list before he'd even seen the films. But I'll leave it up to him to defend himself on that point.
This post has been edited by Helena: 24 May 2005 - 06:42 AM
- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
#54
Posted 24 May 2005 - 07:47 AM
you make me sound so...epic...
you mean I dont admit to agreeing with you on what you consider to be mistakes? Fair enough, I agree with that. The trouble is that what I do consider to be mistakes rarely comes up, and if it does it seems to be stuff thats barely worth commenting on anyway (rubbish love story etc.).
I honesty thought I saw them a week or so before RotS was released, but I could be wrong.
This post has been edited by jariten: 24 May 2005 - 07:50 AM
#55
Posted 24 May 2005 - 08:11 AM
I honesty thought I saw them a week or so before RotS was released, but I could be wrong.
If they weren't mistakes you wouldn't have to come up with all the credibility-stretching explanations that aren't actually supported by the films. I'd be interested to know what you do consider a mistake, however.
- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
#56
Posted 24 May 2005 - 08:15 AM
well then obviously I would'nt consider them to be mistakes in the first place!
#57
Posted 24 May 2005 - 08:38 AM
Anyway, I know by now that there's not the slightest chance of us reaching agreement on any of these issues, so I call truce. I'm thinking of taking a break from these forums for a while anyway, as I'm starting to get rather bored of having the same debates over and over again. Maybe I'll start posting more again when I've seen Episode III for myself.
- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
#58
Posted 25 May 2005 - 12:24 PM
http://www.chefelf.c...?showtopic=3337
Closed.
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