The Prequels according to us.
#1
Posted 19 April 2004 - 09:44 AM
So let me know guys how do you perceive the Prequel trilogy in your mind. You know before this travesty was foisted upon us. Let me know as many details as you can. I could then come up with a general consensus on how the Prequel trilogy should be amongst us.
#3
Posted 19 April 2004 - 09:54 AM
I know we've had our differences with the Original Trilogy but I'm behind you 100% on this idea. It'd be really cool to see what the finished product looked like - and it'll be nice change from all the arguments we've all had recently.
I'm with you completely on this idea.
#4
Posted 19 April 2004 - 03:31 PM
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However: if we're going to do this: I would have had Qui-Gon leave Anikin behind in Coruscant, rather than take him to the city centre of a war-torn country. I think something might happen to Anikin while Q-G was away, like Palpatine got to know him and began some kind of dark mentoring. At least then the conversion to evil would make sense later. And of course, it would all be Yoda's fault, althogh in my version there'd be no Yoda, or Jedi council, and this conversion to evil would only be Palpatine's doing.
In my version too, I'd return to STAR WARS and remove the bit about Anikin already being a great pilot. That way I could have the little kid Lucas wanted without the dumb-ass pod race.
#5
Posted 19 April 2004 - 05:23 PM
It's hard to do in the context of the movie, because as Civ says, the mere context is shit. The whole thing about the trade dispute is shit. Basically, I would get better actors, make the dialogue and the Jedi seem more human, I would devote much more, as Civ said, to the Anakin-Palpatine relationship. In terms of just dramatic changes, I would have Qui-Gon actually dying for something instead of going out like a pussy. Like maybe have Qui-Gon dying trying to save Anakin's life, that would be ironic now wouldn't it? And it would be heroic. Again I agree with Civ, Anakin should not be a kid pilot. Perhaps they could show him in a flight sim or something and say he has great ability if they want to, but no actual flying, and no podrace. After that, though, again, I encounter a mind block, because there is so much in the premise I would change.
If I could rewrite the prequels, there are a few premises I would consider. One would be just doing Jedi vs. Sith, like in the game Knights of the Old Republic. Screw the "only 2 there are" remark. Actually now that I think of it, isn't that remark also another example of how one miniscule detail in the OT is made a central plot point in the PT? Ok, Vader and Palps were Sith. Everyone accepted it. No one cared why.
But anyway, one would be showing a rift in the Jedi. Let's say a civil war. It would be set in the golden age, and the first episode would try to show a harmony between the Jedi and the Force. They would not be set up like a government and would not have a ruling council, and the only organization would be between master and apprentice. This relationship would be a sacred one, shared by a deep bond in the Force, and the first would attempt to set up the Obi-Wan - Anakin relationship as this, though Palpatine would give Anakin some unique ideas about the Force. The second would be the Civil War. On a personal level, it would show a split between Anakin and Obi-Wan as Anakin joins one side of the Jedi and Obi-Wan joins the other, based on Palps guidance. The War itself would be caused by the Jedi's interpretation of the Force, and how they felt it should be used. The Civil War would give Palpatine an easy situation to manipulate, as he pit Jedi against Jedi. One side would win, and in the third episode Palpatine and the newly recruited Vader would exterminate the rest of them. It would show the imperfections of the Jedi, it would show their dark sides, and how because of that the true Dark Side was able to take over. It would not be a typical Star Wars trilogy, and would not be accepted, but I think it would be good, and the struggle between Jedi would be a commentary (don't want to get in a discussion about this) about the violence caused by all religion. And of course, throughout we would cover details about Luke and Leia, and Anakin's love of his wife would be a good thing, not a bad thing. It would be the one thing that would be keeping him going, and would then be snatched away from him as she is killed by people on the side of the Jedi opposed to Anakin. Obvioulsy much of this would have to be fleshed out to include some details that I omitted that have to be included in the PT and to make more sense, but I think you can get my general gist. Now, of course, I would never make this into a Star Wars trilogy, because I think it would be much to real for a simple space opera. But it's just an idea I had.
#6
Posted 19 April 2004 - 09:26 PM
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#7 Guest_JamesEightBitStar_*
Posted 19 April 2004 - 11:06 PM
1. The Clone Wars should be just an event that happened, not the cornerpiece of the entire prequel trilogy.
2. The galaxy should already be at war. This is called Star WARS after all. The story should really be about how Darth Vader came to be corrupted by the dark side. Even that should really just be one movie.
#8
Posted 20 April 2004 - 12:35 AM
0) THE TITLE!! Would prefer it to be called "The Revenge of the Sith."
1) Switch the roles of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan is a little more jaded, a little older. They are more like cop buddies rather than Master and Padaawan (it has always bothered me that padaawans are trained while on the job, especially when they could be so dangerous)...
Let me explain my thoughts on how the Jedi Academy works. Teachers, like Yoda, older wiser, gentler, nobler, train the young Jedi (who come to the Jedi willingly, or by the behest of their parents who see the Jedi traits in their young, rather than this abhorent practice of "checking for Jedi" when they're infants and taking them away from their parents whether they want to or not). When the children are sorted into 'philosophers' or 'warriors' like Yoda and Mace Windu, respectively. When they reach a certain age, they are then put into their 'careers.' The philosophers can become historians, librarians, staticians, senseis, etc., while the more warrior-like ones (hence knights) become more like cops, "keeping the peace in the galaxy." The 'philosophers' would dress more like Yoda, while the warriors would, well, be dressed like KNIGHTS! Not overtly, more subtley, with a hint of uniform.. yes, like a cop. I would even give them blasters as Lucas had originally envisioned, even mini force-field shields (like the ones the Gungans used).
2) Have it Alderaan rather than Naboo.
3) Amidala should be about the same age. I would either have her as a) a princess, and that she's been put into a position of control because her father was kidnapped, or
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4) Palpatine is already in power. Bail Organa is the senator, and he's been fighting Palpatine's rise from the beginning because he's suspicious of who Palpatine is [obviously, Palpatine would not be from Naboo/Alderaan]. This would make considerably more tension, and would give MOTIVE to characters to try and assassinate/expose the other.
5) Anakin a little older, closer to Luke's age now (so Yoda's line of "too old to train" would make more sense). He's also NOT a slave. Also, add a little history to Anakin--and I'd borrow from Lucas' abandoned ideas [which he really should've used!] for ANH---There was a family of Jedi called The Skywalkers, and they not only founded the Republic, but they also opposed the Sith whenever they reared they're ugly heads. The Skywalkers finally destroyed the Sith, but it was prophecized that if the Sith were ever to return, so would The Skywalker. The Skywalkers left the Jedi and retired (in secret) on Tatooine where the bloodline would remain until the Sith returned.
Shmi Skywalker, who thought she could not have children, married Cliegg Lars (who already had Owen from a first marriage), and soon had Anakin. Shmi when she was younger had heard the history of her family, but Cliegg forbid that she tell Anakin of his heritage. He did not want Anakin to rush off into the galaxy seeking adventure and fame (where do you think Owen got his ideas?). Anakin soon revealed his abilities, and I would have them blatantly revealed. Not only is Anakin a capable pilot, but he even can use his telekinetic abilities, which unnerve Owen when he sees this.
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Obi-Wan arrives, senses that Anakin is indeed a Skywalker, and he feels it's his duty to bring the boy back to Coruscant to be trained as a Jedi in order to stop the Sith. Obi-Wan tells Anakin about his family history, inspiring the boy, and angering Cliegg. Anakin leaves against Cliegg's wishes.
6) There would be more than two Sith. They are, in fact, growing in numbers. And Jedi have been mysteriously killed off one by one.
7) Mixed thoughts about the podrace and winning money to pay for hyperdrive parts. I almost felt that the arena scene in AOTC would fit better in TPM, especially if it was Jabba preciding over the event. I had a thought where he finds out the Jedi are on Tatooine, captures them and puts them in the arena (seems to be in Jabba's nature). In order to save his newfound friends, Anakin flies in with a ship and pulls them out in the nick of time... a perfect opportunity to exhibit his "great pilot" skills of which Obi-Wan speaks so fondly.
8) When they get to Coruscant, rather than have Valorum getting voted out as in the original, and since Palpatine is already in power, have the 'military creation act' being debated in the first film... not the clones, but just the building of the navies, vehicles, etc., drafting soldiers, etc... Palpatine uses his slimey ways to pressure the naive Amidala into voting for the measure, or she orders Bail Organa to vote for the act in order to save his own planet.
9) I would not have Yoda on the council. He's the philosopher as explained above. He's not into the war side of being a Jedi (as it's explained in ESB). And, he senses danger in Anakin and refuses to train him. Obi-Wan takes him on as a student because he knows he's right.
I have further thoughts, but I'll quit for now. Other minor points:
Jar Jar would be an effective character, much like Chewbacca, he'd actually be a warrior, useful.
I'd have the droid armies in this one, but not in the following movies.
The Trade Federation came to Alderaan not only to take it over, but they were also helping Sidious steal cloning technology which the Alderaan/Naboo possessed. In fact, this is my explanation for the Gungans. Notice how much they look like the Kaadu? The ancient Alderaan scientists used the genes from them to create the Gungans as a sentient species which they used as slaves. In fact, it was one of the earlier incarnations of the Queen which set the Gungans free, and they have great respect for her. This is also why they revere the 'sacred place' with the human-headed sculptures... this is where they were created, the ancient labs.
In one of my story ideas I have Obi-Wan leave either the King of Naboo/Alderaan or Bail Organa [after they had rescued him from the Trade Federation] with the Gungans in order to force an agreement between the two species.
Anyway... I'm still working on the rewrite... what ideas do you think work?
Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"
All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
#9
Posted 20 April 2004 - 03:42 AM
Luke - Oh, my father didn't fight in the war. He was a navigator on a spice freighter.
Obi Wan - That's what your Uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals - thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved.
Luke - You fought in the Clone Wars?
Obi Wan - Yes, I was once a Jedi Knight, the same as your father.
Luke - I wish I'd known him.
Obi Wan - He was the best pilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior. I understood you've become quite a good pilot yourself. And he was a good friend. Which reminds, me. I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough but your Uncle wouldn't allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi Wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade like your father did.
Okay, it's a small scene but I got so much from that.
I also always thought that Luke's "Uncle Owen" was Obi Wan's younger brother. I don't know if I'm alone in that or not.
Anyway, hopefully bringing up the above scene will make my ideas seem not too crazy. Here goes....
The story of Star Wars began shortly after the beginning of the Clone Wars. An imperialistic group - let's call them the Cloners because that's what they became after all - started these wars, breaking away from the Old Republic and trying to take large sections of systems for themselves.
The Jedi Knights, who had guarded the Old Republic for over a thousand generations, were all living on their respective planets (Yoda on Dagobah, Obi Wan on Tatooine, NO JEDI KNIGHT living it up in luxury on Coruscant, etc) when delegates of the Republic called on the Jedi for aid, as the war was getting out of control.
People from all over the galaxy responded to the threat of the clones with great aggression. Ordinary people would rush off to fight in the war, out of patriotism to the Republic and a feeling of duty. This was a different time, a different galaxy in a sense (but not in the sense that it had Gungans and streamlined silver ships for talking porcelain dolls or the trade federation - just different in that it was older).
The conflict came to Tatooine, when the Republic learned that the Cloners had built a cloning facility that orbited the planet. Tatooine had its own, quite small, volunteer defense force (remember this is Tatooine. It is not the most populated, wealthy planet around). And Anakin Skywalker was in this force.
He and a few other pilots destroyed the orbital cloning facility and when he returned to the planet, the other pilots were all praising him because he was such an excellent pilot. Obi Wan observed this casually. He hadn't actually met Anakin yet but he knew his younger brother Owen was a friend of Anakin's.
* Incidentally, Anakin at this stage is reminiscent of the rebel pilots we met at the end of Star Wars. He is humble, one of the guys and already in his mid to late twenties. He was never younger than that in my mind (and the young Anakin was always more mature than the young Luke - not the other way around as Lucas wants us to believe with the portrayal he gives us in Episode II).
*Also, the ships in my mind were no different from the ships in the original trilogy. Star Wars ships should always be old, with more straight lines than streamlined edges. They are greasy and a bit rustic. And they are much cooler than the yellow submarines that were used by the Naboo pilots in Episode I. I have no problem with heaps of people flying X-Wings either as I don't think they're exclusively a Rebel ship. I don't think the rebels had the funds to make their own ships. I think X-Wings would have been the common fighter, used by almost everyone, at one stage there.
Back to the story.... Obi Wan went to talk to Owen. He told him that the Jedi Knights had been called to aid the Republic and he would soon be leaving Tatooine. Owen was unimpressed. He never approved of his brother's decision to become a Jedi Knight and he didn't approve of him leaving now. Owen told him that the concerns of other planets were not those of Tatooine. Tatooine was a backwater hole on the remote outskirts of the galaxy. Nobody was interested in it and he argued that Obi Wan should just stay and not get involved.
Owen and Obi Wan's relationship started to fall apart when a Jedi, visiting Tatooine,
told Obi Wan to seek out Yoda. Owen felt angry about this because Obi Wan had abandoned the family through several hard years on the farm and when he returned, Owen sensed a change in him so great that it was as if he was not the same person.
While Obi Wan was preparing to leave, the Cloners won another major victory, and a call was made throughout the Republic for all capable pilots and soldiers. Anakin felt that it was his duty to answer the call. Owen tried to dissuade him but Anakin would not change his mind. Obi Wan was present for this and suggested that he and Anakin go together. Owen was angry at this and when he learned that Obi Wan had an interest in Anakin's strength in the force, he became even angrier. He wanted Obi Wan to go away. He didn't want him "corrupting" his friend Anakin with his strange wizardry. But Obi Wan and Anakin left, and that was the last time Owen ever saw his good friend Anakin. The rift between Owen and Obi Wan never healed after that.
In my mind, Obi Wan always wanted to take Anakin to Dagobah to be trained by Yoda but because they were in the middle of this chaotic war, Obi Wan decided to train Anakin on-the-job. *Also, Yoda wasn't very involved in this war. Not because of any fault to him. But because he's OLD. "When 900 years old you reach, fight as well, you do not." He's retired and he now he just lives on Dagobah, passing his wisdom and experience on to others. There is nothing wrong with this. In fact, he is helping immensely by providing the galaxy with more Jedi Knights to guard it. He NEVER shouted like Super Grover and did arial cartwheels and Sonic the Hedgehog moves.
While all this stuff was happening, the future Emperor was planning his rise to power. He was a Sith Lord with a nice long lifespan. He had been waiting for a long time now for a golden opportunity and the clone wars were it. He began campaigning for power and gaining funding support to create a large army, all under the guise that it would be used to destroy the Clone Armies.
Obi Wan and Anakin were going along well, helping out in the war, and Anakin was becoming a formidable Jedi in his own right. Around this time, Anakin met and fell in love with a woman (no-one of noble birth, please! Anakin is the good, down to earth guy. He doesn't feel like he needs to go out with royalty).
They were married during the war, with the fate of the galaxy uncertain, but they didn't care. They were in love. Obi Wan was a close friend to both of them and he was happy for them.
Soon it came that Anakin's wife was pregnant and Obi Wan wished to keep both her and Anakin in safety, away from the war. He escorted them to Coruscant, the strongest planet in the galaxy, too difficult for the cloners to attack, and there he left them - as he had been summoned by a friend of his to help him out. For the record, this friend was Bail Organa of Alderaan.
In Obi Wan's absence, the future Emperor befriended Anakin. He had sensed Anakin's power and he now believed he had a tool for his war... someone to carry out his dirty work. The future Emperor used his powers to convince Anakin that certain Jedi Knights were allied with the Cloners, working against the Republic. He convinced him that these Jedi Knights wanted the Jedi to rule the Republic, instead of being its guardians. The future Emperor was very careful in this. Anakin was not used to hunt down all the Jedi Knights. Obi Wan explicitly stated that he "helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights."
Anakin would take these Jedi Knights in ships on 'missions' (he would ask for their aid and convince them that they needed to get in the ship with him) and he would lead them into ambushes where the future Emperor's forces would destroy them.
Occasionally, Anakin would kill them personally. But very rarely as Anakin was not evil at this stage. The future Emperor could not get him to do anything if he perceived it was evil.
Eventually, Anakin realised what was going on and he challenged the future Emperor. The tragedy was the Anakin was not strong enough to face him and the future Emperor subdued him, tormenting him with his force lightning and bringing him to the point of death. After this, the future Emperor had Anakin basically brought back to life in as Darth Vader. He told him that with his aid, they would destroy the Cloners and begin a New Order. He said that the Old Republic was weak and the New Order would be better. I don't really have any ideas of how the Emperor managed to convert Darth Vader to be the evil man he became, but in my mind, the Emperor was very intelligent and persuasive (how else could he have come to power?) and that in his weakened state, Anakin was not mentally strong enough to resist this. I think it is also important that whether as Anakin or Darth Vader, he generally thinks he is doing no wrong... either that or he believes what he is doing (while technically evil) is in the interests of something that's good in the larger scheme of things.
At this point, the Clone Wars are wrapping up and the Emperor and Darth Vader have reduced the Old Republic to a puppet Imperial Senate, while they crush the remaining Clone Armies and the Jedi Knights.
On Alderaan, Mon Mothma and Bail Organa already see where the Empire is going and begin the secret plan to begin a rebel alliance, with the secret support of all those in the Imperial Senate who are loyal to the Old Republic.
Also, we must remember that Anakin's wife is about to give birth. Still on Coruscant, she and her future children are in danger. Both the Emperor and Darth Vader are waiting eagerly for the children and she is a virtual house prisoner.
Obi Wan Kenobi, maybe alone, maybe with help, goes on a daring rescue mission and gets her out of there - but has no confrontation with Vader. This is because the first time he confronted Anakin in his Darth Vader guise was on the Death Star in Star Wars. Darth Vader did say "When I left you, I was once the learner. Now I am the master." But I don't think that means they left on bad terms, hence my own ideas mentioned above.
Anyway, he gets Anakin's wife to Alderaan. There, Luke and Leia are born (Anakin's wife names them - they are afterall her children). After this, a plan is devised. All agree that they must protect the children from Vader and the Emperor but as there are two children, they feel it is better to seperate them so that if one is found, the other will still remain hidden.
Anakin's wife stays on Alderaan, becomes Bail Organa's wife for her daughter's sake and Leia is raised in their family, believing Bail Organa to be her father.
While Obi Wan, saddened by all that has come to pass, returns to Tatooine with a heavy heart, with the infant Luke in tow.
The story has come full circle now and Obi Wan has returned to his home where his brother Owen waits. Owen is relieved to see Obi Wan home but angered by the loss of Anakin - and he blames Obi Wan entirely for this. After a heated discussion, Owen takes custody of Luke from Obi Wan. Obi Wan agrees for several reasons - he feels responsible for the loss of Owen's friend Anakin, so letting Owen raise Anakin's son is some comfort. He also feels that with Owen raising him, Luke will be completely annonymous to the Emperor and Vader.
The Clone Wars are over but the galaxy is not at peace. A new enemy has risen, the Old Republic and the Jedi Knights are gone. But Obi Wan knows the time is not right for action yet. The rebellion is being planned, Luke and Leia are growing up... things are in motion.
And so we leave Obi Wan waiting on Tatooine, as the galaxy changes...
And then we leap years ahead to see the Rebellion's first victory against the Empire as a rebel fighter force aids some spies in stealing data tapes(
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#10
Posted 20 April 2004 - 06:19 AM
I included the rebel battle because I always thought of that when I was a kid but after thinking about it today, I might leave it out if I was to pen to my own prequel trilogy. Anyway, I'll leave the post open to everyone else's ideas.
Thank you, Mike, for giving us all this opportunity. I think it's good for us all to get our ideas out. For me, the experience was actually good therapy as well.
#11
Posted 20 April 2004 - 08:39 AM
No you are not alone in that notion! If you check the ROTJ screenplay it clearly states this scene:
"Your father didn't know that your mother was pregnant. We both knew that if Anakin knew that he had any offspring, he would consider them a threat to himself. So your mother took Leia to live with her on Alderann and I left you with my brother, Owen on Tatooine" {I'm paraphrasing here}
So it was intended by Lucas for Owen to be Obi-Wan's brother, which leads me to a point I made previously that Owen could actually be a Jedi if he is indeed Obi-Wan' brother.
In my redux of Episode I, I actually have Owen Lars as the other Jedi accompanying Obi-Wan on his mission to Naboo/Alderaan. I imagined their relationship as a sort of adventurous brother/cantankerous brother type deal. To be honest I ALWAYS thought it would be revealed that Owen was a Jedi for the fact that he was Obi-Wan's brother.
Any others out there concur?
#12
Posted 20 April 2004 - 09:11 AM
And there's clearly so much going on between Owen and Obi Wan in Star Wars. Owen is telling Luke that "that wizard's just a crazy old man" and when Luke says that there's nothing he can do about the Empire, Obi Wan tells him "That's your uncle talking." These two guys have had a major disagreement somewhere along the line, so I surprised that Lucas has done so little with Owen in the PT. Although, I guess I shouldn't be surprised after everything else the man has done.
Mike, I hadn't seen your post about the possibility that Owen could therefore have been a Jedi but I'm really taken with the notion. It's got so much potential and I really like the idea of Owen accompanying Obi Wan to Alderaan.
Also, if they were both Jedi, it would make the whole argument about the responsibility for Anakin (and later Luke) much more potent. That is an excellent idea.
I'm very excited about all this - and still eagerly waiting to hear what everyone else had in their heads before. The Prequels according to us is THE best topic on the forum.
#13
Posted 20 April 2004 - 11:15 AM
The only problems with that plot idea is this
1. If they are brother's why does Owen speak with an American accent while Obi-Wan speaks with an English.
2. Why wasn't Owen able to survive the stormtroopers assault on his home.
These are minor problems to me. They can be easily explained or ignored. {Like Lucas hasn't done THAT countless times!!!!}
#14
Posted 20 April 2004 - 09:46 PM
Luke - Oh, my father didn't fight in the war. He was a navigator on a spice freighter.
Obi Wan - That's what your Uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals - thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved.
Luke - You fought in the Clone Wars?
Obi Wan - Yes, I was once a Jedi Knight, the same as your father.
Luke - I wish I'd known him.
Obi Wan - He was the best pilot in the galaxy and a cunning warrior. I understood you've become quite a good pilot yourself. And he was a good friend. Which reminds, me. I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough but your Uncle wouldn't allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi Wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade like your father did.
Okay, it's a small scene but I got so much from that.
i posted a post a while bad with a brief outline for the preqels, not o much in indepth alternative as much as it was what i had grown to believe happened. based on exactly the same scene...
what happened? did lucas forget to watch his old movies? 'cause that converstion, short as it is, completley fills in a whole movies worth of information. and yet is completely ignored. there's nothing in there that showed up in the movies...
"the best pilot in the galaxy" ????
what the fuck?!?
the best pilot in the galaxy, accidentally starts a fighter, accientally goes into a spin (in space), crashes into a controll ship, fires some random shots while inside, scrapes out with lots sparks... fuck that! he does NO piloting in AOTC that suggest he was the best... and too be honest, given the way those to carry on all the way through AOTC, I couldn't imagin such a fond description...
"a cunning warrior" ????
eh?
he wanted to turn around for his bitch, in the middle of a persuit, he charged right at doku when he could have gone in with Obi, (a bad call that lost him his arm)...
and he got captured...
cunning? no! lucky to be alive...
"He feared you might follow old Obi Wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade like your father did"
like his father did? what crucade was that? was it;
a. anikan wait here in this ship
b. win the pod race
c. guard the princess
well lets see if this happens in ep3...
He didn't hold with your father's ideals"
'cause in the two minutes they met they really chewed the fat...
...
yes folks, the ball haveth been a dropped!!!
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#15
Posted 20 April 2004 - 10:27 PM
Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"
All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.