Bond- My guess is that your father was an imperialist land owner in Cuba, and Guevara did justice to him. Cuz that's the only reason I can see for your irrational attacks against everything he did, ever. I'm still waiting for you to explain why you don't believe Dr. Guevara was a real doctor. Feel free to present evidence at any time.
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My point is though that people like Guevara and Mao got most of their ideas from Ancient Strategists like Sun-Tzu. Guevara did not bring anything new to the world of war and politics.
I disagree. And so do the sales of Dr. Guevara's books.
If you're going to go after Che Guevara for taking Sun Tzu's ideas you may as well hit up Napoleon and Hitler while you're at it. You can't just dismiss someone because their winning strategies MIGHT be based off someone who lived thousands of years ago. Also, you can know Sun Tzu or other strategy tomes by heart and still be a shitty commander. Guevara and His Excellency both did more than just strategize. They fought in their own plans, on the front lines with their men and gained their respect, and many other things that proved that they were effective leaders. Case in point:
Guevara was training with Castro's band. At the time he was on as a DOCTOR (note for Bond) and really had no obligation to train, especially with his crippling asthma. Regardless he went on every march and climb. One of the other men in the march fell down and Guevara kept getting him up. Finally the guy couldnt walk anymore and Che had to take him back. They were going to kick him out of the rebel army for laziness until he finally confessed that the reason he kept having trouble with the marches was he had a broken ankle. He hadn't told them because he wanted to be able to fight for the rebels that badly, and he'd kept marching despite his injury because he saw Che doing the same. That man ended up travelling with the eighty freedom fighters on the Granma. They don't teach that sort of thing in Sun Tzu. You're either a leader or you're not.
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Agreed; he tagged up with Castro to be his lackey. Basically, he was Castro's vizier (spelling?), if you will.
Yes, and Thomas Jefferson was Washington's lackey, therefore fuck every contribution he's ever made. Huzzah for logic!
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Thing is, Che used much worse tactics, he was the over-seer of Castro's execution squad.
First of all: Those people executed in the prison in Havana were variously guilty of treachery, exploitation, murder, torture and slavery. They were given trials (difference #1 from the US and Batista regime) and they were not permitted to be tortured (difference #2 from the US and Batista regime) they were not held indefinately without charge (difference #3 from the US and Batista regime) and the vast majority of them were guilty and had reliable witnesses against them(difference #4 from the US and Batista regime). Also, Che didn't just kill everyone. Some Batista military officers were innocent of any abuses, and had actually protected captured rebels from being tortured And some former land lords had actually treated their tenant farmers decently and were therefore left alone.
Taken as a whole the Cuban justice system was fairer than the so-called justice system at Guantanamo and more expeditious despite the fact that it dealt with scum far more vile than the farmers and taxi drivers who are snatched from Iraq and Afghanistan daily.
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I think torture and the likes of it are common in war, a natural extention of it. Only douche liberal hippies actually cry about this shit.
I think you're wrong. His Excellency has never had anyone tortured or allowed such to occur. I'm far from a hippie on the subject. If I'd been watching the firing squads do justice to former Batista officers or land lords working for the US, I'd cheer. But that's justice. Torture has nothing to do with justice or with revolutionary struggle. Torture and assassination are tools of the imperialists and their cronies. And yes, so-called communist regimes have done the same. But China and Russia were just as imperialist as the US.
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As for me, I'm not a big fan of people who trounce on others' liberties, so Guevara isn't a guy I'd exactly have tea and biscuits with...
You know the problem with people like you is you go about your lives believing Cuba was populated by rich, happy people with a car in every garage and happy pink bunnies running around until the big bad commies came in and ruined everything so that now everyone is poor and people eat their young to survive.
Seriously, read a damned book. Cuba in terms of human rights, democracy, health care, availability of food, literacy, and, well, pretty much everything is now hundreds of times better than when Cuba was under Washington's thumb. For instance:
When His Excellency first tried to overthrow Batista he had about 100 men to assault the Moncada barracks. Ten of them died in the failed assault. About eighty were taken prisoner. About forty survived. Most of the survivors including a woman, had cigarette burns, internal bleeding, or in one case missing testicles(and I'm not talking about the woman here)
But yeah, Che and His Excellency were awful people for getting rid of Batista, and clearly they have no regard for human rights. We must shake our fingers at them.
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When Castro was trying to run the affairs of state, Guevara was running around tarnishing Cuba's reputation with his violent anarchy.
Oh yeah it was Che Guevara who went after Cuba's reputation. I mean, without him Castro and Nixon would have been golfing buddies. What reputation did he tarnish? The US put an illegal blockade on Cuba and tried to steal all of its assets because His Excellency wouldn't accept a bribe from the CIA to let them dictate Cuba's future.
Che went around trying to bring hope and freedom to the rest of the world, and that improved Cuba's reputation among the people. It probably doesn't hurt that Cuba has occupied almost every South American country. Not with assassins and torturers like the US does, but with doctors.
This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 31 August 2007 - 10:35 PM