In any event, I've said my piece; I and a few others pointed out most of Kurgan's "plot holes" are just personal beefs of his. Sure, there are about 6 or so indefensible holes, but no film is perfect, and I'm content to let them be as they fail to affect my enjoyment of the 6 films.
Have fun doing whatever it is you are trying to do here. I now remember why I don't bother with Star Wars themed forums.
He's gone now, so it's safe to retort so it will look like I won! (Just kidding, I kind of forgot about this for awhile.. hehe).
rosenrot, you completely missed the point.
Is it "my opinion" that an inconsistency exists in a film series, or an actual fact?
Do I need to be open to the possibility that the movies I watched are actually different than the ones someone else are watching?
Nowhere did I state that movies needed to be "perfect" (much less the Star Wars movies). George Lucas and more than a few Star Wars fans claim that the "six part saga" flows together, that it is really meant to be seen as "one long film" and so forth. More than a few fans have claimed publically that there are "no contradictions or plot holes" in the saga, or demanded that these be presented, as if they don't exist.
All Lucas had to do to avoid many of the mistakes he made was to re-watch his own danged films again, take some notes and use that to create a "writer's bible" (even if only for himself to refer to over the course of the next 10 years while creating the PT). He has enough money and manpower he could have hired some lackeys to do it for him if he didn't want to do it himself.
Declaring that all but six or so of the things I listed were merely "personal beefs" of mine is simply ridiculous. The things I've mentioned are in the movies, and the vast majority of the things I mentioned were not even first noticed by me. I don't see people mass-bashing or questioning ChefElf (perhaps because they realize that as the creator of the site, that would be tactless, or maybe they see that he has a point?), yet he mentions several of the things I do, though in a more humorous fashion.
Nowhere am I saying that the presence of these flaws, mistakes, gaffes, plot holes, contradictions need ruin your enjoyment of the films. Rather, I'm saying that IF the claims of the apologists were true, then these holes and problems should not exist. If their enjoyment of the movies is predicated on there NOT being any problems, then yes, these would cause a problem.
I can "enjoy" the PT as a set of sci fi movies despite the flaws. That's the ONLY way I can enjoy them. I can't enjoy them as a well written backstory for the OT, because they simply aren't that.
But here again I am defending my opinions from people who would insinuate that because I can see Lucas' mistakes therefore I hate him or his films. The only Star Wars film I could really say I "hated" (in any sense of the word, which is nowhere close to real hatred, like of evil or something) is Episode I, because it's really just a boring film and shoddy addition to the series, full of silly fluff and dullness (except for the end, which is partly ruined by too much slapstick).
Noticing plot holes is not a sign of insanity or hatred of Star Wars. But far too many apologists seem to think that enjoying the PT is predicated on either pretending the flaws don't exist or having a pile of excuses ready to explain them away.
One thing the apologists don't seem to be willing to do is say "yeah, you're right, it is inconsistent, but I am just going to relax and enjoy it anyway.. it's just a movie." Instead they would rather go "you're just some jealous idiot, here, let me come up with some excuses why these holes are not really holes at all!" I will admit that coming up with excuses is a "fun exercise" sometimes, but let's face it, if we think that our excuses are actually what Lucas was thinking when he created it, and therefore the original criticisms are not valid, is just fooling ourselves.
If Lucas did not intend to create the backstory to the OT with the prequels, he would be fine, but he set himself up for this kind of analysis, so it's his own fault, not mine, ChefElf's or any other person's for noticing the places where the movies don't match up.
"There, done, what do you think?" - MST3K, the Movie
This post has been edited by KurganX: 31 August 2007 - 09:35 AM