[showmethemoney]

Then Lucas thougth: Anakin is the most powerfull jedi, how can be defeated by Obi-wan? That is it! Obi is in higher ground! (following the reasoning of a 5 years old playing in a playground, like allways)
And what an advantage! he slice both legs and an arm of poor Anakin in a single stroke!
But then... What about Yoda? His feet could be in the same level ground, but the arms and the head remains down there.
(Lucas: Hey That's true, the solution: make him jump like a toad!)
The problem is that all jedis can jump. In fact, when Anakin dies he is jumping above Obi, who stay there, in higher ground.
Seriously: There is anywere in the SW universe a reference to this Higher ground nonsense?

This post has been edited by showmethemoney: 11 July 2005 - 06:26 PM

[SithAvenger]

The worst thing of the ''higher ground'' line is that Obi-Wan won the duel with Darth Maul...when he had the higher ground.

The higher ground means nothing.

[Despondent]

Seriously: There is anywere in the SW universe a reference to this Higher ground nonsense?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If I said it was in the EU or the Clone Wars Cartoon, would you feel better?

[DarthTherion]

The worst thing of the ''higher ground'' line is that Obi-Wan won the duel with Darth Maul...when he had the higher ground.

The higher ground means nothing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The "higher ground" line is supposed to emphasize the already obvious parallel between this and Obi-wan's other victory over a Sith.

You're right, SithAvenger, higher ground does mean nothing -- in and of itself. I think this is the point...a true Jedi can turn any position into an advantage. Only a Sith would deal in the absolute of "higher is better than lower." This is Maul's mistake -- and ultimately Vader's mistake as well.

Then why does Obi-wan say "It's over Anakin; I have the high ground"? Quite simply because Obi-wan is trying to get Anakin to stop fighting. What better way to get a Sith to surrender than to appeal to the foolish idea of higher = better?

An alternate interpretation is that Obi-wan is deliberately provoking Anakin into trying to jump over him -- just so he can slice him up. I disagree with this interpretation, mostly because Obi-wan sounds very sincere when he says, "Don't try it." He would prefer that Anakin surrender and give up the dark side.

This post has been edited by DarthTherion: 12 July 2005 - 02:40 AM

[Just another wretched fan]

The "higher ground" line is supposed to emphasize the already obvious parallel between this and Obi-wan's other victory over a Sith.

You're right, SithAvenger, higher ground does mean nothing -- in and of itself. I think this is the point...a true Jedi can turn any position into an advantage. Only a Sith would deal in the absolute of "higher is better than lower." This is Maul's mistake -- and ultimately Vader's mistake as well.

Then why does Obi-wan say "It's over Anakin; I have the high ground"? Quite simply because Obi-wan is trying to get Anakin to stop fighting. What better way to get a Sith to surrender than to appeal to the foolish idea of higher = better?

An alternate interpretation is that Obi-wan is deliberately provoking Anakin into trying to jump over him -- just so he can slice him up. I disagree with this interpretation, mostly because Obi-wan sounds very sincere when he says, "Don't try it." He would prefer that Anakin surrender and give up the dark side.

there is no way that much thought went into the film.

GEORGE LUCAS DOESN'T THINK THAT DEEPLY ANYMORE!!!!!

[showmethemoney]

If I said it was in the EU or the Clone Wars Cartoon, would you feel better? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep! it could keep this post alive one or two more pages.

Star Wars- the high ground master strike back!
In the cartoon, we se how the siths learn to figth higher from childhood,
using their lightsabers standing on a chair, then on a stair, on a roof, etc.
bocouse they kill their masters, a long time ago a sith kill a master before to learn the secret skill to avoid an attack from a higer ground opponent and that will be their weakness forever.
they are so coinciouss of that weakness that it will make Anakin's artifficial legs taller just in case.

[julie123]

The "higher ground" line is supposed to emphasize the already obvious parallel between this and Obi-wan's other victory over a Sith.

You're right, SithAvenger, higher ground does mean nothing -- in and of itself. I think this is the point...a true Jedi can turn any position into an advantage. Only a Sith would deal in the absolute of "higher is better than lower." This is Maul's mistake -- and ultimately Vader's mistake as well.

Then why does Obi-wan say "It's over Anakin; I have the high ground"? Quite simply because Obi-wan is trying to get Anakin to stop fighting. What better way to get a Sith to surrender than to appeal to the foolish idea of higher = better?

An alternate interpretation is that Obi-wan is deliberately provoking Anakin into trying to jump over him -- just so he can slice him up. I disagree with this interpretation, mostly because Obi-wan sounds very sincere when he says, "Don't try it." He would prefer that Anakin surrender and give up the dark side.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that your analysis regarding the deeper meaning of higher ground is really pushing it in relation to Anakin. Geez, the guy has only been a Sith for about 5 minutes, much to soon to expect him to 'act' as you describe above. Obi-Wan is saying the literal truth, because he wants to end the fight and spare his best friend from certain death. It is Anakin's vanity and trust in his POWERS that let him down. It had nothing to do with him being a Sith or not.

[CptSeaMonkey]

Now that I understand Darth Therion is trolling, I can appreciate his sense of humor much more

[DarthTherion]

It is Anakin's vanity and trust in his POWERS that let him down.  It had nothing to do with him being a Sith or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A Sith is a being of selfishness, that is to say, pure vanity. The mentality of a Sith is bound up in duality: high over low, self over others, personal power over responsibility.

The presence of the higher ground "teaching" in the Clone Wars cartoons seems to confirm this. It is the Sith way. While it is true that Anakin is not a Sith for very long, my point is that this notion of vanity, as you put it, is intrinsic to the Sith and not something that needs to be specifically taught (especially to one so consumed by his own desires like Anakin)

The selfish attitude that leads one to become a Sith goes hand in hand with "dealing in absolutes."

To answer JAWF: Normally, I do not care if my interpretations are intentional or not; I feel it's more important what an audience can take from something than what its creator intended (and often artists create works with intricacies of which even they are not aware). However, in this case, it seems extremely obvious that we are supposed to compare this scene to Obi-wan's victory over Darth Maul. Obi-wan is the only Jedi alive to have defeated two Sith in combat -- and Lucas even calls attention to this with the "high ground" line.

And to answer SeaMonkey: I happen to be serious right now, although examples of my humor abound, particularly in my thread "Lucas, the damn sellout." Check it out today! Keep the memory of Dirk Starkiller alive.

[julie123]

However, in this case, it seems extremely obvious that we are supposed to compare this scene to Obi-wan's victory over Darth Maul. Obi-wan is the only Jedi alive to have defeated two Sith in combat -- and Lucas even calls attention to this with the "high ground" line.

This is extremely obvious only to you. Lucas is using the higher ground terminology that is commonly used in battle in both Hollywood films and books about war etc. Also, Obi-Wan has not won the second battle that you refer to with regard to his higher ground remark so how can Lucas be calling attention to it? You are projecting how you believe what higher ground means for a Sith on to Obi-Wan when it does not apply. However, if you want to over analysis and see things that just are not there, you go right ahead, it is your dollar

[Harvey Globetrotter]

I'm just disappointed that Obi-Wan's line wasn't followed by a rousing rendition of the Stevie Wonder song "Higher Ground."

[Hari Seldon]

I'm just disappointed that Obi-Wan's line wasn't followed by a rousing rendition of the Stevie Wonder song "Higher Ground."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now THAT would've been something.

[Deleted Scene]

The "higher ground" bullshit is simply explained - Lucas didn't know how to show Obi-Wan cutting off Anakin's limbs because he probably feared it would make Obi look stronger than Anakin. So GL contrived it to make it so that Anakin wasn't defeated in swordplay, it was the environment that screwed him up, which is bullshit since Jedi have been shown to jump a couple of stories high, even when they're tired. Hell, about 45 seconds or so earlier, Anakin made one hell of a leap/jump to avoid going over the lavafall.

Of course, what Lucas failed to realize is that while Obi had the "higher ground", Anakin could've easily jumped down near the bottom of the slope which would've kept him safely away from Obi.

Lame.

This post has been edited by Deleted Scene: 22 July 2005 - 03:19 PM

[arius]

Jedi LightSaber battles are like chess games according to Nick Gillard.
Then it follows that there is a distinct advantage in knowing what your opponent will do next, especially if you can trick him into it.

Instead of using the force to react. Maybe there is an advantage to use it to attack. Also imagine if there was no kill switch on the saber and Anakin's blade was still ignited and he rolled on it.

Also speaking of rolling. Shouldn't Anakin have tried to roll around to extinguish the flames after he caught fire.

This post has been edited by arius: 22 July 2005 - 03:56 PM

[frontier2k]

DarthTherion, on 12 July 2005 - 02:38 AM, said:

<!--QuoteBegin-SithAvenger+Jul 11 2005, 08:25 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SithAvenger @ Jul 11 2005, 08:25 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The worst thing of the ''higher ground'' line is that Obi-Wan won the duel with Darth Maul...when he had the higher ground.

The higher ground means nothing.
<div align="right"><a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=85524"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The "higher ground" line is supposed to emphasize the already obvious parallel between this and Obi-wan's other victory over a Sith.

You're right, SithAvenger, higher ground does mean nothing -- in and of itself. I think this is the point...a true Jedi can turn any position into an advantage. Only a Sith would deal in the absolute of "higher is better than lower." This is Maul's mistake -- and ultimately Vader's mistake as well.

Then why does Obi-wan say "It's over Anakin; I have the high ground"? Quite simply because Obi-wan is trying to get Anakin to stop fighting. What better way to get a Sith to surrender than to appeal to the foolish idea of higher = better?

An alternate interpretation is that Obi-wan is deliberately provoking Anakin into trying to jump over him -- just so he can slice him up. I disagree with this interpretation, mostly because Obi-wan sounds very sincere when he says, "Don't try it." He would prefer that Anakin surrender and give up the dark side.

Nice try, but your interpretation of why Obi Wan told Anakin that it was over because Obi Wan had the high ground is simplistic. Obi Wan understood Anakin's character. He knew that Anakin was not a strategic thinker. Anakin was instinctual and abrupt. By telling Amakin that the high gound = advantage Obi Wan knew that Anakin would attempt to get the advantage by possibly vaulting over Obi Wan. What happened next? He did just that. The statement that Obi Wan made really made no logical sense. First, all Anakin had to do was run away. After all it started with Obi Wan pursuing him and not the other way around so Obi Wan having the so called high ground ended nothing. Second, Obi Wan was there to kill Anakin and end the threat, so to call it a draw was not in Obi Wan's mind. Obi Wan was tempting Anakin. And it worked. Or at least that is the way they wrote it.