[Plumberduck]

True, but it's possible that he's only referring to the fact that Theo's body is being used as the body of the New Prince. Or it's possible I'm getting too nit-picky for my own good.

[Blueskirt]

It's tough to understand, WAYS too tough. Everytime I come up with a theory, there's a detail I forgot which come and bring everything back to zero. I think Chzo and the Tall Man knew that Lenkmann would liberate the Tall Man in TN, one way or the other, and the Tall Man would finally be free from Chzo's torments. And this whole Cult and ritual to "bring Chzo in our world" was actually a plot by Chzo to get his revenge.

Rather than bring Chzo in our world, it would bring Trilby (as a cheap source of eternal pain), The Tall Man, and someone who would have suffered all 3 agonies to be eligible for the title of new Prince. Hence why the Order was instructed to leave in the place Theo (to become the New Prince), Sam (to patch Theo after he'd have suffered the agony of the body), Janine (so Theo would suffer the agony of the soul), the Tall Man and a lot of Trilby clones (to destroy the Mind and fulfill the ritual).

The Tall Man, not interested in seeing the ritual being completed tried twice to kill Trilby in TN, steals his soul and mind, and makes Trilby his wraith but failed twice.

What follow next isn't clear, either the Tall Man sticked with the Order so they would clone Trilby, thus giving him a second chance to kill him, make Trilby his wraith and prevent the ritual, OR the Tall Man discovered Chzo would never survive the trip to the World of Technology, and helped them to complete the ritual, hoping it would destroy Chzo.

But it became pretty clear when the Tall Man started to slay the Trilbies that his plan wouldn't work or the ritual wasn't to bring Chzo in this world after all.

Or, if it's not a big plot orchestrated by Chzo to get his revenge on the Tall Man, then re-read the last 5 or 6 paragraph keeping in mind the hypothesis that the Tall Man reacted this way in TN and 6DaS because he wanted to keep his position as Chzo's right arm and Prince and did not want to be dethroned and replaced. Then the question isn't "Why the ritual?" but "Why the New Prince?". Which, again, could be for vengeance reasons. It's so complicated.

Why were Janine, Dr Harty, Canning and DaCabe left alive by the order?

So Theo would suffer all 3 agonies and become eligible to become the New Prince.

What happened when Malcolm transferred the old Trilby's energy to the young Trilby? From his positioning, he seems to be Trilby from Lenkmann's ritual in the basement of the Hotel. So it wasn't Siobhan's CPR so much as Malcolm's intervention that brought him back?

That's what I understood too. Which bring another layer to the Red Robed Man paradox. He couldn't exist if he didn't gave the knife to Malcolm, and Malcolm as he is couldn't have existed if the Red Robed Man did not save Trilby.

And why wrap him in bandages?

Because he looks damn cool now, or because Yahtzee got a bandage fetish. The General, 1213, now the New Prince. Ohhhhh, that was THIS guy that was mentionned in The Countdown. A floating man covered in bandage.

I see this as a possibility due to the fact that Yahtzee has made most of his games take place in the same universe.

I thought the same, before but no more. If it was cannon with the Rob Blanc universe, the game wouldn't have taken place on Earth since it was destroyed in 2040. Unless if they paid a spaceship crew to tow the chunk of Earth where the Defoe Manor was build and bring it back on the planet where the Order was based. I find that explication to be rather overkill complex to be any logical. It's simply easier to say the Trilby and Rob Blanc universe are now 2 distinct universe. Just like the 1213 universe is.

It really pained me to see how Trilby eventually ended up. The one who was being tortured by Chzo and stabbed by Malcolm/Caretaker was the original, right?

It was a clone. The last one. The one the Caretaker guided to set the compound in fire. Yes, it's rather sad that the clone had to suffer this. Particuliary when it's the Caretaker that put him in this situation without any remorse. At least he ended his torment 200 years later but it's still sad.

Whether it's a clone or the real Trilby because it is the last clone is personnal taste I guess. I saw a movie once which involved a scientist forever cloning himself to get the impression he would be immortal, but his clone had no soul whatsoever and lived tormented lives devoid of any point. The movie ended with one of the clone discovering the truth and, hoping to finally become the last one, killed the scientist and the other clones. However, because the very last clone he would have to kill to become the real one, was the little child of a woman he fell in love with a few days earlier, he suicided so the little boy would be unique. So, whether the last Trilby clone become de facto the real one is really up to you.

Is Theo the New Prince, or is John DeFoe?

I'm not sure. I think Theo is. John DeFoe was the Tall Man's wraith and bonded to him. But I'm not sure. I would need to play the game again, listen carefully at the conversation in the nursery, and read the last piece of paper given at the end to be sure.

This post has been edited by Blueskirt: 25 January 2007 - 01:18 PM

[Plumberduck]

The last note, the one about Liches and Wraiths, does seem to indicate that DeFoe should be subservient to The Prince, since DeFoe's soul was kept in the Slave's idol. (It also explains how DeFoe has gotten so damn powerful, since his mind and soul are hundreds of thousands of miles apart at this point). However, I don't know if we ever saw that relationship play out in the games; I don't really ever recall the Prince and the Welder interacting.

At the same time, is The New Prince now a lich, the way that the Old Prince was? If so, what is his soul object?

And on a lighter note, did anyone else give a little giggle when Lenkmann was referred to as "The Puppet"?

This post has been edited by Plumberduck: 25 January 2007 - 01:20 PM

[Blueskirt]

However, I don't know if we ever saw that relationship play out in the games; I don't really ever recall the Prince and the Welder interacting.

I'm not sure, but I think the weird conversation in the nursery, after Sam was killed, was a conversation between John DeFoe and the Tall Man. I think I remember "You killed me!" and "No matter how many time we kill him..." but I'm not sure. That's why I said I would need to play the game and read more carefully. But I think John was bonded with the Tall Man and needed to follow his order and was maybe tired of Chzo too. Again, I'm sure of nothing.

At the same time, is The New Prince now a lich, the way that the Old Prince was? If so, what is his soul object?

I guess so. But I have no idea about the soul object.

And on a lighter note, did anyone else give a little giggle when Lenkmann was referred to as "The Puppet"?

Yes, but I laughed more when the broken legged, broken necked, bandage covered Theo said it hurted during sex.

[Girdag Fireskull]

The plot confused me a LOT in playtesting. My personal opinion is that the plot was a little TOO opaque, and the scares not as effective as those in previous games. As I said to Yahtzee, I didn't feel anything for any of the characters, the Trilbys, who were the only ones you could really relate to from previous games, were clones, and so expendible. And the new characters just didn't get enough backstory to make me care much about them. It was good, just not as good as I think it could have been.

[flammableben]

Just finished. Enjoyed it enough to play through in one go and answered lot's of questions whilst still giving me stuff to think about at the end.

Anyone else keep getting the trilby clones killed over and over again just for fun?

[AdamM]

I was quite disgusted with the end of Day 3. All of the other bloody games had potential bloody love interests so I didn't think Yahtzee was into that, but here we bloody are, eh.

Why was Janine, after kicking up such a fuss when she saw Trilby, happy to stay with him alone when Theo walked off to fix the fuse?

And why does every character including The New Prince have mothers that told them they had the hands of a pianist?

[Nostaw]

Finished. It's "good".

[Plumberduck]

I just played through the game again (it only takes about 30 minutes if you know what you're doing), and the conversation between Theo and Janine in the Infirmary after Sam dies at the end of Day Two is definitely John DeFoe (Janine) talking to the Prince (Theo). Which is interesting, because it's the only time we've ever seen DeFoe talk even semi-rationally through one of his possessed tools. DeFoe recognizes The Prince as his creator ("You're the one that did this to me") and begs him to get rid of all the Trilbys, because they won't "let him out." Which would seem to make it clear that DeFoe has no interest in Chzo's plans; he just wants to spread out into a Trilby-less world. He doesn't act subservient to The Prince, but he does come to him as a supplicant.

It does make me wonder how much control DeFoe has over Janine most of the time. It's always there to some degree, I think, since she's always terrified of Trilby. I guess I'm just wondering if he had a hand in the sex scene. Even homicidal wraiths need love.

Oh, and not that I'm suggesting this is intentional, but does anyone else find it odd that we don't see Janine's corpse, just the bloodstain? I can't help but think that a child conceived by a woman in the process of being consumed by John DeFoe and The New Prince would be damn dangerous to have around.

Oh, and I agree that the final shot during the credits sure looks like there's a photo missing between TNP and Malcolm. It would be weird if the spacing, which leaves more or less the right amount of space for one more picture, was unintentional.

[invalid]

Finished. It's "good".

Well, to be honest I didn't really enjoy it; It wasn't scary at all, and I expected more creative killing techniques, I still remember when The Tall Man killed the ship crew member with the blunt side of his staff i TN

Also, It was disappointing playing as Theo, and FAR more disappointing to see Trilby in that state, almost souless.

[Blueskirt]

I don't think I can objectively review this game, because I don't know exactly if it's the real closure or not, plus I'm a fan of Yahtzee's works, and like everyone on this forum, and unlike those that will play but not come here, I'll spend a whole lot of time analysing the plot in detail until it make a tiny bit of sense. On the other side, I am a bit deceived because I expected a closure.

The game was cool, it no longer had that scary feel, which is bad, but I still had fun playing it, I laughed several times. The story, while being very complex, was good, I still liked the characters, and how Yahtzee had the guts of pushing that guy down an elevator and patch him up like he did, I liked the ending, but I personally expected a closure to the series. Instead, it is more like an introduction or a transition to another chapter than a well rounded story like TN was and I think a lot of people who aren't hardcore fan of the series will find 6DaS deceiving because of this, because it looked a lot like fan service and because it was more tough to understand and has a lot more unanswerable questions than TN.

Maybe Yahtzee is building us so when he will conclude the series "Finally!" will be on every lips rather than "Wow! Sequel please!!!!111one1".

Anyone else keep getting the trilby clones killed over and over again just for fun?

Yes!

I can't help but think that a child conceived by a woman in the process of being consumed by John DeFoe and The New Prince would be damn dangerous to have around.

You've read too much Spawn comics.

Is it me or Yahtzee seems to have develloped some sort of sixth sense at designing cool looking villains, The Welder, 0916, The Tall Man, now the New Prince.

[invalid]

Is it me or Yahtzee seems to have develloped some sort of sixth sense at designing cool looking villains, The Welder, 0916, The Tall Man, now the New Prince.

I totally agree, but I like The Tall Man more than eveyone else. It's tragic that he had to die, replaced by a filthy MUMMY!

TN is the best game in the series, it's just brilliant, extremely good music, effects and .. everything actually.

This post has been edited by invalid: 25 January 2007 - 04:13 PM

[David-kyo]

PS - Apologies about saying it was RPG Maker music this time round, but it got you thinking, huh?

You're an evil bastard, m0ds.

I don't know, the game is not That scary, notes is Way better.

Perhaps not as scary, but a lot more thought-provoking. We'll be discussing the symbolism of the XDAS games for a reeeeeally long time, methinks.
Moreover, the puzzles were a lot more challenging in 6DaS, which, in my opinion, is a good thing.

[BovineBeast]

Oh, and I'm still wondering... Is Theo the New Prince, or is John DeFoe? I always associate the "it hurts" dialogue you get while playing as TNP with DeFoe (although I know it comes originally from the newlywed's journal in TN), so I just assumed that DeFoe had taken Theo over.

I think, though am not sure, that DeFoe and Theo have merged. You can see the machete/mask/apron from DeFoe, and the bandages from Theo.

[Blueskirt]

Perhaps not as scary, but a lot more thought-provoking. We'll be discussing the symbolism of the XDAS games for a reeeeeally long time, methinks.
Moreover, the puzzles were a lot more challenging in 6DaS, which, in my opinion, is a good thing.

I second that. More mature, more sad, more thought-provoking and sex that wasn't for frat boy humor reasons.