QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Oct 10 2007, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And that means they werent influenced by Jazz?
Not necessarily, but in this case, yes. Just like when George Lucas said he was influenced by Classical Mythology to write STAR WARS, they were to some extent being pretentious. Weird, though, given that what they were doing was almost unique and a new direction for poetry, to try to submerge it under a musical style as though to say it wasn't theirs at all. I suppose when they got together to discuss a new direction for poetry they were really just cribbing the album jackets of Charlie Parker 78s? When I hear jazz and listen to the lyrics, I can feel the time and the place that these poets lived in, but some of that is just knowing they were there. I can't honestly say I hear the words to beat poetry in jazz. But when you compare yourself with something in another genre, such as jazz riffs or surrealist painting, you don't have to draw attention to your more prosaic influences, such as the Romantic poets of a couple of centuries before.
Anyway, the Beat poets, getting back to the original idea, are an example of white culture. None of those dudes were black, and few of them even hung around with black people. You might as well say that The Who are an example of Black culture because of Chuck Berry.
RE: Dalloway:
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I read to the parts where some creature named Scrope Pervis appeared. because I remember the name. I also recall that someone, possibly Scrope Pervis saw the queen maybe. Where that is, I don't know. Mrs. Dalloway is, in the words of Ginsberg, "An Endless Book that will drive everyone mad"
So you just don't like Dalloway because Ginsberg didn't like Dalloway. Wow.
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Dalloway is NOT easier to understand than Howl.
Sez you.