[Mr Pye]

Good point about the location of the tractor beam control Would seem so much easier to place the lever on the other side of the column where the broad walking bridge gives lots of space to stand on. Or hey! Here's an idea, why not put it in one of those many control and computer rooms that we are shown all the time. They must be for something.

The pits and shafts are everywhere in the deathstar. At one point Luke and Leia are brought to a halt because the bridge is not extended. I wonder why they made the bridge retractable at all? I would guess that they need it to move large mass objects through the shaft or something like that, but on the other hand they seem to be right at the top of the shaft because there is a handy roof extention for Luke to use hise grappling hook on. Another guess is that it could be a security measure in case the deathstar gets boarded but that too seems far fetched. Especially considering the handy roof extension.

To me all of this still pales compared with the TF mounting gun turrets inside their own ships so that they can blow upp things inside their own shields just next to the ships main generator. But that is another story.

[KurganX]

Somebody has been reading "50 Reasons Why ROTJ Sucks." Frankly, a lot of that list appears to have been rose-colored ESB-wanking (but I'll admit there are still some valid criticisms therein).

Admittedly a lot of ROTJ is recycled ideas from earlier scripts, but then again, so are the prequels (though just not where you'd always expect... and yes I'm getting this from the print edition of The Secret History of Star Wars... reading through it now, and it's a page-turner!).


As to the names of stuff, no Kenner didn't make them up!

"Ewoks" were named as such in the ROTJ credits. They were named that in the shooting script and novelization prior as well.

Sure, they only call him "Bounty Hunter" in ESB, but his name is there in the original credits, shooting script and novelization before the movie. Additionally we know his name from the Holiday Special, and finally, the mail-in action figure offer.

The word "Sith" is never mentioned in onscreen dialog until Episode I, but it appeared in the novelizations and scripts going all the way back to the beginning (Lucas borrowed the term from older sci fi, and in his own early drafts there was an army of Sith, I guess the closest thing to what we have "now" are the Moffs... just imagine them carrying lightsabers, like every other soldier...).

Speaking of which, anybody notice how it says "Lord Darth Vader" in the original Star Wars credits? The SE changed it to just "Darth Vader," but it clearly proves that this "Darth isn't a name but a Sith title" stuff was clearly BS (it only became a "fact" when the Prequels were developing in the late 90's).

I'm reading "the Secret History of Star Wars" (print edition), and it's quite a page turner. Amazing how much stuff from the Prequels is recycled from earlier ideas, though not in the way you'd expect.

For example the lightsaber battle in Episode I is clearly derived from the earlier concept of the duel between "Father Skywalker" (aka "Annikin") and Obi-Wan vs. Darth Vader. Replace Skywalker with Qui Gon Jinn and Vader with Maul, and have Vader survive the fall (originally Maul wasn't cut in half) and boom. The attack on Coruscant was revamped from the invasion of Alderaan (the imperial planet, later changed to Had Abbadon, long before it was Coruscant, a name which also came from earlier non-Lucas sources before the EU used it).

This post has been edited by KurganX: 28 January 2010 - 04:05 PM

[Mr Pye]

KurganX, on 28 January 2010 - 03:57 PM, said:

The word "Sith" is never mentioned in onscreen dialog until Episode I, but it appeared in the novelizations and scripts going all the way back to the beginning (Lucas borrowed the term from older sci fi, and in his own early drafts there was an army of Sith, I guess the closest thing to what we have "now" are the Moffs... just imagine them carrying lightsabers, like every other soldier...).

Speaking of which, anybody notice how it says "Lord Darth Vader" in the original Star Wars credits? The SE changed it to just "Darth Vader," but it clearly proves that this "Darth isn't a name but a Sith title" stuff was clearly BS (it only became a "fact" when the Prequels were developing in the late 90's).

Many years ago, when the internet was still mostly plastic cups and strings, I remember finding out somehow that Darth Vader was Lord of Sith. I remember it because at the time I believed Sith was a planet. (Because Hoth was.)

[MyPantsAreOnFire]

Can Jedis/Sith use the Force to read minds? The movies do little to clear this up. It seems for the most part that the Force allows people to sense another's feelings and emotions, or even peer into the future (which still seems hinged on what people are feeling), but in general it's pretty vague as to specific details. "I sense fear/anger," "they're in pain," etc.. So how the hell does Vader figure out Luke has a sister? What emotion translates to "I have a twin sister I'm trying to hide from you"? This implies they CAN read minds, but that seems like an ability that would have been pretty handy at another points in the trilogy yet it'ssort of forgotten about.

[Paladin]

I haven't posted here in years, and I haven't really cared for Star Wars a lot at all (the sole exception of watching the Droids cartoon, but that was over a year ago). So I might as well give my two cents on what has already been said.

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When did George Lucas become so literal minded about everything in the Star Wars universe? You know, Greedo was a Rodian and he was a bounty hunter, ergo all Rodians are bounty hunters. A Jawa once used the word "Ooteenee" so now Jawas use this word to convey 90 % of what they want to say. It's hard to put a precise date on it but at some stage he applied it to the Jedi as well. In Star Wars, Ben tells Luke that the Jedi are all but extinct and Lucas seems to interpret this later as meaning there are absolutely no Jedi left in the galaxy besides Ben and Yoda.

There's an actual effect in fiction that basically dictates that at least SOME aspect of a character's behaviors and characteristics would have a chance to become the dominant thing even if it was originally portrayed as something minor. For Example, Jedi did not wear brown robes as a 'uniform'. I mean look at Luke, he never wore a robe at all, he was in whatever the Rebels were wearing in ESB and had that cool all-black outfit in ROTJ. Obi-Wan could have conceivably wore a brown robe because it seemed to be fairly common on Tatooine to wear robes, and Yoda wore one that was so old it seemed to be falling apart. In fact, he could have made it himself out of old materials as there wasn't exactly any shopping malls around where he could drop in and pick up new outfits or anything, so it could have been more out of practicality than a uniform.

Yet the PT, Jedi wear robes as a matter of principle than anything else. That's just one example of making one seemingly coincidental thing a main focus.

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Now, maybe this sounds crazy but if they were such a large social group, I find it hard to believe that every last member of it is dead by the time the movies begin. There's also another line in that scene that I think Lucas forgot about, when Ben says, "I was once a Jedi Knight, the same as your father." I don't know about the rest of you but from that scene, it doesn't sound as though all the Jedi are gone. It sounds like they certainly took a hiding from Vader and the Empire but completely wiped out? Come off it. It's very easy to imagine from that scene that there are heaps of former Jedi Knights like Ben around the galaxy… living as hermits, maybe holding day jobs, almost certainly regaling their grandkids with stories of the good old days.

The weirder thing about it is that Obi-Wan and Yoda were the Jedi that were most important to Vader in the PT. Wouldn't Vader be interested in hearing about the capture of his old mentors? Instead he ignores it and just assumes that if he's old that all known Jedi are dead, then they must be all gone. This is even stupider when you realize there were about 10,000 Jedi in existence in TPM. Considering that that's hardly what you'd call an unaccountable army, there must have existed a database of such people during ROTS (Yoda never mentions it erased, just the order made public to all surviving Jedi so they can go into hiding). It isn't difficult for any Jedi Hunters to keep a list and cross it out every time they find and eliminate a Jedi. Leaving those two seemed like a glaring oversight than a simple mistake.

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Yeah, I know. He, Leia and Chewie destroyed the shield generator. But ask yourself, is this something that called on someone with Han's characteristics? Look at Star Wars. Han helps out because he's strapped for cash and he could do with the money. He helps Luke during the Death Star attack as a favour to the kid because he's his friend. In The Empire Strikes Back, Han's actions revolve around protecting a woman he cares about but is too shy to admit he really loves. In Return of the Jedi, Han's leading a commando squad to carry out a job… that a commando squad would probably know far more about than he would. Er… come again?

The way how I see it is that, with Jabba the Hutt out of the way after Leia strangled him and Luke effectively blew up his entire entourage, Han felt he was too deeply involved in the Alliance at that point to just turn his back on them. Also let's not forget the fact that he crossed the Empire in the worst possible way imaginable. Before signing on to transport Luke and Obi-Wan, he was just a smuggler. Sure he might have been a good smuggler, but in the grand scheme of things he was just a petty criminal, and probably a minor player in even Jabba's crime ring. He might have gotten into gun and space battles with the Imperial fleet and probably killed more than a dozen Imperial stormtroopers and officers, but that wouldn't make the Empire prioritize him any more than Ted Bundy would have been seen as a major threat to national security, so might have probably been able to land on planets with nominal Imperial control once the heat was off, anyways.

Or maybe at that point he decided that he wanted to go straight. Since the Rebels became the new government, and he contributed a lot to them (hell, even saving the entire Alliance at one point), they would gladly issue him and Chewie a pardon for any and all acts of crime he might have committed up to that point.

But you're right, a commando raid didn't seem to be Han's fortay at all. He would have been better off either as a pilot in the battle or gathering information through underground sources or corrupt Imperial officers.

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Has any one got the impression that Luke, Han and Leia work for a different group of employers in every single movie? I mean, sure the alliance must have divisions but how is it that not a single recognisable leader appears more than once. I mean, without Wedge Antilles, there wouldn't be a single link between any of the alliance groups.

A couple of years ago I made a post question as to how in the world is it even possible for the Rebel Alliance to stand a chance against the Empire to being with. Let's start with a few pointers.

1: The Empire is HUGE, they control most of the Galaxy and their army and navy are so big that they have thousands and thousands of capital ships and millions of soldiers and pilots at the ready at all systems at all times.

2: The Rebel Alliance is... tiny. They control ONE planet at a time, the base isn't particularly big, and they seem to have only a few squadrons of fighters and bombers, and their fleet is so tiny that it was the bulk, if not all, of the ships shown in the big space battle in ROTJ.

This isn't a David Vs Goliath battle here. This is more along the lines of a wide awake guy with a can of raid, a fly swatter, and a severe fear of malaria vs a mosquito that doesn't even carry malaria to begin with. It might be an annoyance, but it isn't going to stand a chance.

How is the war fought to begin with? How much industrial capacity does the Rebel Alliance have? What's their recruitment and training scheme for pilots and soldiers? How they convince people that the Empire is not for their best interest and it is better for them to risk everything and join up with the Rebels? How is the war conducted? It can't be done in terms of attrition since the Empire can afford to lost 10 or even 20 ships for every kill they make and still come out strong at the end. Do the Rebels practice a form of piracy and raid Imperial shipping? How do they conduct that Commerce war effectively? I should mention that in the X-wing series of games, they bring it up, saying that the Empire doesn't think the Rebels would care to attack merchant ships and bulk freighters, so they send huge fleets of those unescorted! Ironically making them not only a target for any military leader with even a few living brain cells, but also every single unaffiliated pirate in the galaxy looking for easy money.

Also since they only hold one planet, and are forced to abandon it every time the Empire finds them out, how are they supposed to effectively liberate the thousands, possibly millions, of planets under Imperial control? What kind of propaganda scheme do the Empire and Alliance have in an attempt to win the hearts and minds of the people in the galaxy?

These questions are never answered in the movies. Ironically, this means, basically, that the games are a better source of information than the movies. The X-wing series definitely made the war look more realistic (and to its favor, X-wing Vs Tie fighter kicked ass. It's a pity I can't get the games to work anymore), and explained it more in depth.

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Just a little mystery to finish up but whatever happened to the B-Wings in Return of the Jedi? These new ships looked so cool, like massive gunboats as opposed to regular fighters. We see one in the hangar before Han and his buddies go off to have their picnic on Endor, we see them as the fleet prepares to go to lightspeed and as it comes out of lightspeed. We see their attack wings fold out (and they look really cool) and then…... we don't see them for the rest of the movie.

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Thank god they weren't used more in the movies, because if you've ever flown one, you know that they're total and utter crap. Let them rot in the hangar for all I care. Advanced tactical bomber my ass, those things are nowhere near an improvement to the Y-Wings. What's the use of guns en masse like that in a close combat fighter if it's as maneuverable as a corvette?

They're bombers, not fighters. Their mission to carry heavier payloads of ordnance and attack the big ships. Ironically, they don't show this capacity anywhere in the movies.

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Many people think Boba Fett is the bee's knees. I'd argue that he doesn't warrant the status of any of the bee's appendages. In fact, he's an idiot. When he found Han, he could have taken him straight to Jabba the Hutt but he decided that he'd try to get even more money out of the deal by turning him over to the Empire first. It sounds clever but if you watch the scenes with him and Vader on Bespin, you'll see that he spends most of the time walking about in frustration and impotence as he realises that Vader can do whatever he damn well pleases. He was damn lucky to get anything out of that deal and he knew it.

Boba Fett was just stupid in my opinion, to top it all, he didn't seem bad ass or more dangerous than any other outlaw or crook out there. How and why he was elevated to a demi-god status is beyond my reasoning. First of all, I'm 100% sure that NONE of the bounty hunters who answered the call were interested in the reward money that the Empire had to offer, or their favor either. It was Jabba's shit that they were interested in. In a snippet of a novel, I heard that the reward for Han's head was 250,000 credits (compare that to Chewie's 25,000). The only clue as to how much money that really is, is the price that Han demands for passage to Alderan in ANH (10,000 credits, according to Luke is enough to buy a brand new, long-range ship, so 250K is probably equal to 10 or 20 million dollars or something).

Though to his defense, his so called meek behavior is perfectly consistent with how any crook would behave. Criminals have no integrity, they're only interested in two things: Cash, and living long enough to spend that cash. I'm pretty sure that Boba Fett wouldn't have a problem blowing away some Stormtroopers or officers if he needs to, but Darth Vader was the big shot of the whole gang, and he can't afford to piss him off anymore than a common street thug can afford to piss off a Mafia Don. Such a thing would mean instant death to say the least. He might not have known what Darth Vader wanted with Han, but he was at least sure that if they were desperate enough to hire bounty hunters, they'd probably pay up.

The only really stupid thing is just why the hell did Boba Fett try to shoot Chewie to begin with? Why did he even care if the guy went berserk and killed a couple of stormtroopers by throwing them off the ledge (and where in the mother of God are the railings? Don't they have safety precautions in places like that?)? If I were there, I'd probably just watch with amusement as they struggle to keep that 213cm walking carpet under control without injecting him with sedatives (and why didn't they to begin with?).

And the less said about Boba Fett's surprising display of non-importance in ROTJ the better. Though to say something good about him his plan of flying so close to Luke and shoot him at a range where he couldn't hope to deflect the blaster bolt took nerves of steel.

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Nope. That was the stuff of old-school sci-fi, looking back to the pulp SF days when noone much cared about the science. When Star Wars was an homage to those old serials and dimestore paperbacks, it was on solid ground. When Lucs claimed he'd read Joseph Campbell, had used universal themes to try to convey some sort of message, and when he created a symbiotic life-form as his explanation for the Force, then the space slug became stupid.

Not stupid in EMPIRE. Stupid only if you watch the prequels.

That’s pretty much one of the biggest flaws of the Prequels. The OT had a mission in mind, as did Indiana Jones: To pay homage to old Sci-Fi serials, pulp fiction, as well as older westerns and samurai movies (Indiana Jones did the same thing to old adventure/treasure hunt-in-exotic-locales serials that were popular in the 30’s to the 50’s. Indiana’s vest and fedora hat were actually commonly used outfits in those old serials).

So what did the new stuff have to offer? Nothing, George just went nuts with the CGI, gave it a bare minimum story (if it can be called minimum) and more time paying tribute to the original series than he did paying homage to the source material for the original Star Wars mythos.

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Why did Lukes X wing have a hyperdrive, even though according to Obi Wan a fighter that size couldn't get deep into space on it's own?

The only known explanation I have to give to this is that the Tie-fighters were much smaller than the X-wings and other ‘alphabet’ ships of the Rebel fleet, hence having no space for a hyperdrive, but since the Rebel ships are bigger, they have the capacity for such stuff.

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Why does Luke not stay in the Wampa's cave until morning, like any cub scout should know? (He is from a desert planet, too, he should know about survival techniques). Doesn't he have a radio? Yes, it's good for talking across the reaches of space, but won't make it the 5 miles back to the base.

When the rebels are looking for Luke,why do they have Artoo standing INSIDE the door with a three inch antenna waving around 6 inches above his head searching for a signal? For Christ sake, my Satellite TV antenna is bigger than that, and I'm smart enough to put it on the roof, not in the garage. Then Artoo decides that the chances of survival are 725 to 1. What the hell is he basing that estimate on?

Let’s take it to a whole new level. Ever since at least World War 2, they had radio direction finders, meaning that if you’re transmitting anything on radio, they’ll know where it’s coming from. Now fast forward to the future, with homing beacons with pin-point accuracy. There’s no reason that Luke wouldn’t be having such a thing pinned in his clothes as long as he’s out of the base (considering how dangerous the outside is, there’s no reason why he should have one in case he gets lost or attacked). They should have been able to find him and send for help even during nighttime. I guess they don’t adhere to the old Marine saying ‘no one gets left behind… especially not our war heroes!’

[Paladin]

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The Vader yells at Admiral Ozzel for coming out of lightspeed "too close to the system." Where should he have come out of hyperspace, if not close to the system? Any further away wouldn't make any sense. (Drop out of lightspeed right next to the planet and start dropping bombs! What the fuck? It's a goddam AMBUSH for Christ sake! The indians don't jump out of the bushes 2 miles away, they jump out straight onto the covered wagon and start slitting throats.)

What’s even stupider is that the Rebels KNEW they were coming. Come on, they spotted the droid. If it sent the pictures of the Rebel power generators, it should have sent the information of its contacts and self-destruct to show that it had been spotted and attacked. Why punish a guy for not being able to do the impossible? They shield would have been up long-before he even STARTED the jump to hyperspace let alone arrived.

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Admiral Ozzel clearly states that they have "thousands of probe droids searching the galaxy" for the rebels. Let's work out the likleyhood of a result with that information.

Don’t bother yourself with statistics, the real issue is that Ozzel was making more sense than Vader. Ozzel demands real proof to know what’s going on, and not some photos that could vaguely mean anything. Vader on the other hand, takes one look at a photo and says ‘oh yes, clearly they’re rebels, oh and Luke’s there, too. Come on, let’s go.’ All of this while Ozzel is dumbfounded as heck as to how Vader knows this.

I would LOVE to have seen what would have happened if they went to a planet like that only to discover it is a settlement of an insane hermit who hates visitors…

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Why, at the end of the film when the heroes are all escaping in the Falcon, being chased by tie fighters and star destroyers, does Artoo make an offhand comment that he KNOWS that the Hyperdrive motor has been deactivated (the city computer told him so), but doesn't think it important to fix this BIG problem, but instead concentrates on welding Threepio's foot?

Actually I think that R2 might have been one huge asshole. He speaks in beeps and bops and you have no idea what he’s saying, for all we know, he might be swearing like a sailor and making lewd comments about Leia’s boobs and Han’s ass. He constantly insults 3PO, and even that debacle with the hyperdrive is just plain retarded. I mean did he know EXACTLY where the problem is? Also if it’s such a small problem that a simple tweak of two wires could fix it… why in the name of all things holy and clean did they not do that to begin with?

Lando was shocked at the hyperdrive not working since his mechanics told them him they fixed it? What did they do? Fix it entirely then sabotage that point because they were under Imperial Duress? If the Empire still wanted their hyperdrive out of commission, why didn’t they just slack off entirely and say they fixed it to get off. It would have done them better.

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When Han and the infiltration team is about to land on the Moon of Endor they make a lot of fuzz about a stolen security code that may or may not work. It turns out it does work. Either that or Vader decides to let them through. Let them through what though? Ackbar told us that the Deathstar is protected by an enrgy sheild generated on the nearby moon of Endor. Solo is landing on the moon, but still he asks for deactivation of the energy. This must refer to a shield (possibly the same one) protecting the base area down on the moon. But unless they intended to land on base landing platform which is unlikely, why did they do this at all? If the people down on the moon deactivate the shield as instructed they would have been looking for a ship to come landing. The rebels would have been outed either way.

I have a better idea to deactivate the shield. If they’re sending down a ship that’s presumably loaded with suppliers, why have it manned by robots and its cargo is actually a nuclear bomb or some other similarly massive explosive. After the casual run is over and they make it in to the shield generated area, they might be near the actual generator site… go on a suicide run and detonate the nuke. It would probably eliminate the shield generator for good without any major battle being fought. Yes Ewoks might be killed, but this is a sad, miserable fact of war.

Once that’s over, they needn’t worry about that shit anymore and commence with the attack.

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Many years ago, when the internet was still mostly plastic cups and strings, I remember finding out somehow that Darth Vader was Lord of Sith. I remember it because at the time I believed Sith was a planet. (Because Hoth was.)

Yes it is true. I learned this in the mid-90’s, from Star Wars coloring books that I think were available from a few years before that, too. Darth Vader was the Dark Lord of the Sith.

[Radu094]

KurganX, on 28 January 2010 - 10:57 PM, said:

Somebody has been reading "50 Reasons Why ROTJ Sucks." ...

Man, some guy wrote an awesome list of "Reasons to Hate Episode I,II&III" on the internet! This was quite a while back, but let me see if I can still remember where to find those links...

Those were great lists. Anyone else here read those?

[Just your average movie goer]

Nice.

Good to see you, Radu94.

And you also, Paladin. It's been a while. Although, let's not spoil our nice little thread with discussions about the prequels. We're just looking at some of the amusing little things that we notice in the classic trilogy (you know, the one we all love)... the good old, original, pre-special edition movies.

Quite liked the point about Boba Fett by the way. You're quite right. What did he care if Chewie was throwing stormtroopers around? It's not his problem.

And loved the idea of Darth Vader's hunch about the rebels being completely wrong - mainly because it'd be interesting to see what this guy (who tolerates no failure) would do if he stuffed up in front of all his men. I can imagine him gazing around a silent bridge before telling everyone to shut up, then promptly storming off to his quarters.

Oh, and Artoo as an asshole... yeah, that could work actually.

[civilian_number_two]

Thing is, Vader was certain that was the Rebel Base, and he was right. Unlike all the other gusher justifications, I think this is a case where we actually have to acknowledge that Vader had a reason for being so certain. Either he saw something he recognized, or he used Force premonition, or whatever, but I don;t think the story Lucas wrote and directed included Vader risking his reputation on a hunch. He didn't let anyone in on his reasons, ie "that wall panel was salvaged from a ship they destroyed in the Jyamg System ..." but I think we're meant to accept that he had some.

[Supes]

Yeah I also don't have too much of an issue with Vader "knowing" that it was the correct system. If we're going to believe in the Force we've got to give a little credit to one of the most powerful exponents of its use.

As to earlier commentary about Boba Fett and his foresight and planning in order to catch Han out with his little Falcon disappearing act, again I think there are enough elements in this to make it a reasonable set of circumstances. Yes we do have to speculate a little, but that's part of the appeal I think. Take one of the points Mr Pye (I think it was) who reminded us that Fett was actually on a different destroyer. So here's the scenario:

Boba Fett leaves Vader's ship and in doing so spots the clinging Falcon. Instead of getting himself transferred to the garbage hanger or some such, he just takes a leaf out of Han's book and also attaches himself to the ship where he cannot be seen. Again with a much smaller ship there is a better chance he wont be seen. At this point in time he has no idea what Han is doing, but as we were all able to do at first viewing he makes a fairly educated guess. Being that close to the main ship it is clear he will no longer appear on the sensors as they set reading away from the ship, not on it. The garbage is then released. Fett makes an educated guess and figures this is the thing Han was waiting for. Not an unreasonable assumption. He then detaches himself close enough from the garbage bay that he appears to be part of the flotsam being released. He then follows Han to the point where he again is able to get an idea of possible destinations. Or more likely, he radios back to Vader that he has Han's tail and that the general direction is such and such.

We need to remember at this point that Fett wants Han and Vader wants Luke. The whole point of chasing Han is to create the trap for Luke from Vader's point of view. Again, it's likely that at least part of this plan is discussed between Fett and Vader, otherwise Fett would be just as likely to go after Han without any follow-up to the Empire.

[Just your average movie goer]

Ah, the Jyamg system... awesome.

Actually, I think no-one here thinks Vader was just acting on a hunch. We're just saying that'd be kind of funny if he was and it was wrong. For me, I've always thought that Vader's certainty in that scene was one of those force-guided things.

Although, regarding Vader chasing the Millenium Falcon, I've always thought that it made more sense if he thought that Luke was on it. Otherwise, he could have waited close by the planet until a ship came past that triggered his force sensitivities. Then he could have tailed Luke's X-wing.

I'd say that he remembered the Falcon from the last movie and made the fair assumption that Luke would be on it again. Then when he got to Bespin and discovered that he had Luke's friends, he just decided on a new plan.

[Supes]

Yeah but that also begs the question why did he not SENSE that Luke WASN'T on the Falcon. I prefer the idea of a broader plan simply because we have another example of the 'on again' 'off again' Force sense if we don't.

[barend]

Just your average movie goer, on 09 December 2009 - 04:55 AM, said:

Oh and speaking of the leadership in Return of the Jedi, does anyone else find it funny how when Luke barges into the meeting, it just breaks up. I mean, poor General Madine is in the middle of his presentation and then suddenly everyone starts yapping about the football and what was on telly the night before. Whatever happened to discipline in the ranks of the Rebellion?

That's gold.

[Mr Pye]

To be fair I think Vader was down on the planet when Luke took off. Infact unless I misremember Vader personally had to eat the dust of the Falcon blasting off, which must have annoyed him greatly.

The situations seems to be that the Empire lost touch with Luke, and though Vader knew he was not on the Falcon, the Falcon was still his best link to tracking down Luke again.



On the topic of Vaders certainty that the Rebels are on Hoth, I see it more as a character moment for Vader. The audience of course already know at this point that he is correct, and so this sense of somehow he just KNOWS is given him which together with his commanding voice and terse choice of words makes him a littel awesome.

That's part of why the SE change from bring my shuttle, to alert my stardestroyer to bla bla bla bla bla bla seems so out of character to me. Why did they chage that? No really! Why?

[Just your average movie goer]

Well, basically, the reason is that they suck.

And hey Barend!