[J m HofMarN]

Whats your opinion on the wikileaks deal? I, naturally, am supportive of them, but I can see how others might not be. Now we will have debate!

[Gobbler]

For now, I see no reason to not be supportive. If we can bring truths and facts forward, maybe people will take the hint and carry themselves in a more appropriate manner. That, or at least they learn how to be really discreet about them.

Also, I'm a tech consultant and so have to cheer for every little bit of leaked information that will bring us more fancy orders for security related products and trainings.

Opposing the critics, I can't really see how they've actually "endangered" anyone so far, but then again I haven't really looked into the documents myself and don't really know much about their potential.

Finally, I'm unsure about that Assange fella. True, such a project requires a well known spokesperson. And I have to respect him for stepping up like that when you've got plenty of people sitting in the plenum who'd just love to shoot you down, literally. Still doesn't make me too sure about his motives... but oh well.



Edit: Oh, oh! I haven't checked with all media about this, but so far there were some nice revelations about the US ambassador's thoughts about our very own German chancellorette Angela 'Teflon' Merkel and boring Herr Westerwelle. Sure made me giggle a bit, but then they're only German politicians, they can't really compare to such glittering personalities like Italy's Silvio Berlusconi. So for us - not much impact, nothing we didn't know already. How does it look from your perspective? Anything noteworthy in between those documents?

This post has been edited by Gobbler: 30 November 2010 - 04:39 AM

[J m HofMarN]

Yeah I noticed that they enjoyed talking bad about just about every world leader, but I don't think Angela Merkel is going to endanger the life of Hillary Clinton over the matter, so thats all a lot of bollocks. Though if it weren't, I'd buy the event on pay per view.

I think the most significant part of the leak, beyond the gossip and such, is the fact that Clinton was interested in , and probably succeeded at, getting her people to spy on various UN personnel including Ban Ki Moon, which the UN doesnt really like at all. Bitch even told people to get his credit card numbers. I wonder if she sent him the old Nigerian Bank Minister email in the hopes of doing so. Probably.

[Gobbler]

What I also found interesting was a mention that Israeli people were pretty happy about the general outcome, what with several Islamic states apparently taking a position against an all too aggressive Iran.

[J m HofMarN]

That seemed surprising to me as well. I cant imagine how the Islamic states, Syria even, could want a US attack on Iran. The US would control 3 Middle East countries if they won, 4 coutning Israel... Of course, maybe the point is that the US couldnt win a war with Iran, or that they'd just like to see Iran bloodied, rather than conquered.

[Gobbler]

It's not that, I think. It's more like... well, Israel is a tiny place. Surrounded by nothing but Islamic states. So if Iran is really going for nuclear bombs (or any other means to have a war), it would affect them as well, be it via nuclear fallout or choosing sides.

There may be a lot of pro and contra Israel people around, but it's nice to see that the majority apparently still prefers a stable, peaceful situation to open conflicts.

[J m HofMarN]

I don't think anyone believes Iran wants to use nuclear weapons. What Arab states are worried about is the increasing influence and power of Iran being aimed currently against US and Israeli influence, especially considering that a lot of Arab states are very much influenced by the US. The US and Israeli problem with it is that if Iran has nuclear weapons, Israel will be unable to bully its neighbors with the threat of nuclear weapons anymore. It'll create an even playing field, and imperialists hate that sort of thing.

[Gobbler]

Would it really be an even playing field? I mean, Ahmadinejad seems a little more eager to bully a certain someone if he's got the chance. I'd think that this wouldn't result in a pristine little baseball diamond, but rather in yet another place filled with craters. Not much fun in playing there.

[J m HofMarN]

They often said the same thing about India and Pakistan, two nations locked in a territorial and religious conflict, but that area's calmed down since they went nuclear. I'm not implying that every country should have nuclear weapons, just it's a ridiculous double standard that the US helps Israel develop their nuclear arsenal, yet no Arab state is allowed to possess a nuclear deterrant.

[Gobbler]

I guess it's all about who you trust more to just 'use' them as a deterrent... can't blame them for choosing Israel. Well, that is, so far I haven't gotten in touch with a more stubborn and paranoid people than the Israelis, but that's only because I didn't travel that far yet. I'd still pick them over any Arab state.

And yeah, media coverage already imprinted that picture of an often pretty aggressive Islamic culture in me as well, so there's my bias. 'tis a shame, really.

[J m HofMarN]

New topic, because I'm just getting bored with all this reasoned debate.

Does god make the air so that we'll be dependent on breathing air and need to thank him for it? Why is he such a dick to make air like that? It's like a drug or something, almost. Also, it probably holds back society's potential?

[Gobbler]

He's just scared that one of use monkeys will eventually become a Super Saiyan and defeat him. It said so on TV!

[J m HofMarN]

Probably why he created religion for the wolves too.

[civilian_number_two]

Yes indeed on the God issue. Some good points raised there.

As to the wikileaks business, well I am all for shaking up the military industrial complex. I just wish it were being done out of some sense of patriotism, or terrorism, or at least some ideal. Honestly, an ideal of any kind, even one I disagree with, would be preferable to a vendetta from a disgraced soldier angry at the "don't ask/don't tell" policy, his troubled high school life, etc etc yadda yadda. I suppose when they make the movie, someone will have murdered his wife, and he'll eb out for revenge or Freeeeeeeedom! or something. But for now while we know the actual story, it's just the usual selfish bullshit. When are we going to get one decent supervillain?

[J m HofMarN]

I would have to say that anyone who sets out to be a super villain would somehow end up becoming a hero to a bunch of people somewhere. I also have a beef with the wikileaks thing for fucking up my whole perceptions of the government conspiracy gig. These guys aren't killing Kennedy or plotting to initiate the alien invasion once they get rid of Mulder and Scully, they're just talking trash about the other world leaders and occasionally asking the media not to mention that they blew up a bus full of Iraqi orphans. And when someone finds out about it? They don't attach a transmitter and chase him through a hotel room where he strips for a Japanese couple like Will Smith did that one time. They point a finger at him and say "he raped a chick once, get him". AND THAT ALLEGATION PROBABLY ISNT EVEN FABRICATED!!!

Come on, can't you at least accuse him of a murder he didn't commit or something?