[Marky]

Well, that amount of money I have to pay when I actually order the books (through Bol.com, a site similar to Amazon). But I'll try and get them through other ways, like library, second-hand and stuff. In other words, it can take quite a while before I actually read them...

[Madam Corvax]

I suppose the book will be available in the local library children's section... if they let you in there

I suppose Comet is the best book to start, even if Rhubarb soea not like it all that much. I was trying to find Snufkin crying, but I think it might have been Snif, not Snufkin, who cried.

Or maybe the memoirs of Moominpapa... I really love one bit from it, when Mymbla is reading a goodnight story to her children, and they remind her where she stopped last time, they quote the ending:
"'It was one-eyed Joe, bloody work' Said inspector Twiggs and pulled out a three-inch nail from the deceased's ear..." (or something like that, maybe it loses flavour translated back to English...)

[Rhubarb]

Nah, it was definitely Snufkin. I remember being annoyed.

And yeah, that bit was great. In the English version it's -

"Aren't you going to read to us?" the kiddies cried.
"Yes, of course," the Mymble replied. "Where did we stop last time?"
The kiddies chorused: "This is One Eyed Bob's sanguinary work remarked Inspector Twiggs pulling a three inch nail from the ear of the corpse it must have happened..."

All the stuff in Moominpappa At Sea with the poor Groke really got to me in particular, as I recall... especially since the drawings of her were so scary. She was just such an awful lonely thing, and Moomintroll spurned her in favour of the beautiful laughing seahorses, and then they called him names and giggled and ran away. The whole thing was really painful. In fact that whole story, and Moominvalley In November too, is full of the more painful and humiliating aspects of human (Moomin?) interaction.

[Madam Corvax]

I meant to ask you about another favourite qote of mine. I think it is in Memoirs, when they meet Hemulen's Anut, the one who brought um Moomin papa and she says they will go skiing in winter and someone asks what is skiing and Fredrikson (I think it was Fredrikson) answers something like that:

"Sliding your legs along atmospheric precipitance"

Could you please check the exact wording in English? In Polish it really is hilarious, I use is something when my more snobibsh colleagues at work go on about their skiing holiday... I believe it is a very apt name.

[Rhubarb]

Hmm. By Fredrikson, do you mean Moominpappa's scientist friend? In the English versions, he's called Hodgkins for some reason. I had a look for the quote but couldn't find it. It it after they rescue the Hemulan Aunt from the Groke? I scoured the pages to no avail...

I did find lots of awesome quotes elsewhere though.

"A black (canvas) is so much more festive, I think," said the Island Ghost, clicking away at his knitting. "Or even a thin veil, ashen pale as midnight fog. The shade of horror, you know."
"What a prattler he is," sid the Mymble, who had brought all her children to the event. "Hello, dearest daughter! Come and look at your latest brothers and sisters!"
"Mother dear," said the Mymble's daughter. "Have you made new ones again! Please tell them that their sister is a Colonial Princess on her way to a trip around the moon in an Amphibian."

[Madam Corvax]

Fredrikson is called Hodgkins? Yes, this is the scientist friend, the one with the long ears. What's wrong with Fredrikson, I thought that surely they would leave that name. Anyway, I have to check exact place of the quotation, maybe it is somewhere else.

I think a translator should leave as much as possible in original whrn it comes to proper names. Children's books are especially badly treated by translators. For example, when Mary Poppins was translated into Polish, the translator changed her name into "Agnes" for some reasons, and only at the request of the author changed it back to Mary Poppins. The same with Astrid Lindgren, when Pippi Langstrumpf was changed into an equivalent of Fizia Longstocking in translation. And then there was the TV series, when they did not bother to change the name and everyone in Poland knows Pippi by her original name anyway, so why bother in the first place?

That is why I hate books in translations, they lose so much of the original flavour. But I can't read in Swedish, unfortunately.

[Rhubarb]

I think they compromised with Pippi Longstocking, which is the name I knew her by when I was a child, reading her books. Some translation changes are really unnecessary and stupid... sometimes I sorta like them, though. Like, I personally much prefer 'Snufkin' to 'Nuuskamuikkunen', because Snufkin is a name/word that has connotations in English language, while Nuuskamuikkunen means nothing to me but random syllables. I always thought Hodgkins was a stupid name though.

What is the Joxter (Snufkin's father) called in the original Exploits? And what are the Hattifattners (the skinny green creatures that grow from the ground)? Cos that sounds sorta Finnish.

[Madam Corvax]

Joxter in Polish is called Jok, so the original must be close enough to that. Ditto Hatifnats, looks like that is a more or less original name too. I also don't mind Nuuskamuikkunen being changed all that much, because you are right, it might have some conntations in Finnish which are lost if they are not translated.

[Madam Corvax]

It is strange, the quote about skiing is not from Moomin papa memoirs. I have to do more research and find it, I am sure it is there somwhere...

[ForceHippo]

I'm impressed by how much you know of Nordic literature. I'm from Sweden and my knowledge of these books is not nearly as extensive as yours. It was interesting to follow your discussions on the translations and being fairly proficient in the Swedish language I just wanted to add a few comments. I think Pippi Longstocking is a very good translation since it not only is literal, it also makes sense. Regarding Hattifnattarna (I think this is their original name) I would say that this word probably was invented by the author relying on the Swedish language. If you reverse the order of "hatt" and "fnatt" you get an exp​ression in semi-Swedish, which could be translated to "crazy in the hat".

[Madam Corvax]

Two authors of children's book is hardly a Nordic literature, but thanks anyway.

My problem with Pippi was that the book had the Polish title "Fizia Ponczoszniczka", and as I said, the tile of the film was Pippi Langstrumpf, and each and every kid in Poland knows the character from the film anyway. I remember how baffled I was when I was trying to find Pipppi in a librabry, because I'd heard that there is a book, and simply could not find it, just because Pippi was Pippi and Fizia to my 11 year old brain must have been someone else.

For one thing it is ok to have translations for kids to get the humour fromt he names, but on the other hand you get confusion as to who is who when you talk to people from abroad. As I said, it is best to know the original language, but your brain can only absorb so much...

[ForceHippo]

Ok, my statement was a little sweeping - what I meant is, that your in-depth knowledge of Nordic children books is very impressive, especially since I didn't know that the Mumin books were known outside our cold little place in Europe. For quite heavy existantialist stuff I can otherwise recommend the Danish author Kierkegaard, or the still existantialist yet much more accessible works of our Swedish "national poet" Strindberg.

I certainly agree that translations tend to be quite inferior - I would very much like to be able to read Dostoyevsky in Russian, but this will probably have to wait.. Still, my main beef with translations is the situation when it comes to comedies. Comedy and poems (not really my cup of the, but anyhow) are usually so much more word-sensitive than other forms of texts and, I have been subject to quite a few horrible translations of those.

[Rhubarb]

I didn't know that the Mumin books were known outside our cold little place in Europe.

I thought they were your biggest export.

[ForceHippo]

I thought they were your biggest export.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Our biggest export? Not even close. Astrid Lindgren sure was successful, but I don't think even her achievements can be compared to those of ABBA, and some lesser bands which I am somewhat reluctant to mention.

[Rhubarb]

Sarcasm isn't one of your greatest commodities either, I guess.