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Except Chechnya has grand autonomy within Russia and Russia never tried to remove that autonomy or try to permanently "remove" any Chechens from their homes (at worst, the first war can be summed up as careless and clumsy but it cannot be compared to the ruthless calculations of Georgian actions against Ossetians.) Of course I don't support Ossetia in its bid for independence (call me old fashioned for sticking to international law) since everything was fine and dandy before the Georgian blitzkrieg and Ossetia had autonomy within Georgia.
grand autonomy is the very best kind of autonomy..... except that Chechnya is being terrorized by disappearances and torture and the Russian secret police, and that as I said all independence parties are banned. Ruthless calculations of the Georgians? Georgian Blitzkrieg? Why dont you just fugging draw a swastika on them already. State controlled Russian media said that perhaps 2000 people died in their attacks on separatists in Ossetia. And many of the people who went out of South Ossetia did so not because of expulsions, but because they were given Russian passports by the Russians. So we're not going to accuse Georgia of mass genocide, and we're CERTAINLY not going to accuse them of fucking Blitzkrieg. Blitzkrieg tends to be a term applied to attacks that, I dunno........ work?
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He states facts. Georgia did attack first. America cant stop Russia save using nukes.
Like the fact that many media conglomerates are managed or owned by Jews? That kind of fact? Like facts gleaned from state controlled Russian media? And yes, America can stop Russia. That's what proxy wars are all about.
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Freer then anything the child killing terrorists (Shamil Basayev bragged about being the planner of the Beslan school massacre on tape) would have instituted.
Child killing terrorism is so last year. I hear puppy molesting terrorism is in in a big way all over the middle east. All the fashionable wahhabiists are doing it. And ok, so one guy admitted that he ordered people to take hostages (not to kill anyone) so EVERY Chechen freedom fighter is a child killing terrorist. Anyhow we wont get in to all the stuff the Russians did that caused the Beslan situation to erupt into a blood bath, but you can hardly hold the entire independence movement accountable.
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Anyhow, I don't feel like being lectured on democracy from someone who is an apologist for the Castro regime, the Vietnamese commies and the Georgian autocracy.
I don't believe I've made any apologies for the Georgian government, except to say what is clearly obvious: this war was not something that benefited them and any conspiracy theories about it are nonsense.
RE: Your silly conspiracy links: Wow you did a google search and linked the results. Brilliant. None of those are terribly reputable websites, and most amount to CIA conspiracy theories or Russian media citations. I found the one about the CIA laundering heroine money through the KLA to be entertaining though.
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Russia has the high moral ground for stopping the Georgian attacks on Ossetian civilians (i.e. doing its peacekeeping duty) and for not being the instigator of the war.
No, Russia may not have actively attacked anyone, but it surely set the stage for a war to occur. You have to admit that they stood to gain a lot if they survived the terrible onslaught of the Georgian Blitzkrieg.
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Yeah I bet people living under Soviet slavery enjoyed working dawn til dusk and not being allowed to buy the house/apartment they live in and not being able to own a car or large appliances because Soviet productivity was so low or not being able to afford those things in the first place.
My point is that politically and internationally the current Russia is little better than it was before, not that people enjoyed conditions in the USSR.
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Or not since that doesn’t happen.
There have been documented cases of several Russian dissidents and journalists, typically female, being declared insane and institutionalized for no good reason. What about the former KGB agent who was poisoned with Polonium in London? Other prominent journalists have "jumped" from fifth story windows or just got shot by unknown assailants who were never investigated.
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Reality is absurd. Tell me what’s not absurd about ordering a blitzkrieg on a demilitarized region.
You've learned a new word. Good boy. Tomorrow's "lets link people to the Nazis" word is Lebensraum. You can now accuse the Georgians of seeking more Lebensraum.
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1(rigged in my opinion but that is irrelevant.)
3. Declares a state emergency when some people protest against his presidency, he then proceeds to order the arrests of everyone who disagrees with him which causes mass rioting across the capital which he then blames on phantom Russian instigators.
4. Tries to blitz Ossetian dominated areas with UN sanctioned Russian (and Georgian) peacekeepers stationed there in 2008.
3. Declares a state emergency when some people protest against his presidency, he then proceeds to order the arrests of everyone who disagrees with him which causes mass rioting across the capital which he then blames on phantom Russian instigators.
4. Tries to blitz Ossetian dominated areas with UN sanctioned Russian (and Georgian) peacekeepers stationed there in 2008.
1 Then why mention it if you feel its irrelevent? You say that to cast dispersions on him, but then say its irrelevent so when I point out the fact that its baseless nonsense, you can say that you didnt really mean it, but maybe you did. Also, his latest election saw him win only 52 percent.
3 How many were detained? Why were none killed? Thats a pretty shitty crackdown. To me it sounds like he just moved to stop large protests against the government without going overboard in the use of force. Also you fail to note that after the protests he made several concessions to the opposition.
4 For Lebensraum?
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Because America had no reason to invade the last 4 out of 6 countries it had since 1990. I can understand the first Iraq war in because America’s ally was attacked by Iraq and I understand the current war in Afghanistan (though it seems odd that they went into Afghanistan to get Bin Laden and now they‘re there helping build Mosques, talk about a lack of coherent priorities) but the wars it raged against Somalia (it wasn’t American peacekeepers that were killed and I don’t think America even had peacekeepers in the Horn of Africa during that time), Republika Srpska Krajina, Republika Srpska, Serbia and Iraq the second time around were without any logical casus belli.
You turned the Serbian deal into three seperate wars, so if we ignore that you leave it with four US wars, and then it goes down to 3 sense you're counting Somalia, which was like twenty or so guys. Russia has made war against Chechnya, Chechnya and Georgia, so that's three for three. Seeing as the first one was "we want your land", the second was "you've got your land, so we'll accuse you of terrorism and the ntake it" and the third was "now we want your land too", I don't really think Russia has a much better record than the US.
This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 22 August 2008 - 04:26 AM