[Lord Aquaman]

Just saw Hellboy 2: The Golden Army yesterday. Though it can be a bit unwieldy at times, I enjoyed it. Anyone else planning to see it before it gets slaughtered by the Dark Knight?

[Heccubus]

I'm waiting for a DVD release. The only thing I'm really interested in it for is because it's one of those "OMG GUILLERMO DEL TORO!" things. I love his stuff.

[TruJade]

I saw it about a week ago and i must say
that it was good but the first was better

it was like Guillermo was trying to make HB lovable to everyone
but i already love him like he was without all the extras

Other than that its quite funny and the creatures are sweet
oh and Abe seemed different and i didnt like that

oh and there is this something weird with HB's head/body proportion
i guess they tried to update and make him look better but it comes off like Yoda in TPM

but i did like it
i swear lol

This post has been edited by TruJade: 21 July 2008 - 01:24 AM

[Lord Aquaman]

I highly recommend the DVD, the making of documentary is one of the best I've ever seen.

[Just your average movie goer]

How did I miss a thread for Hellboy 2?

I guess this reply is a bit late coming. First of all, it is a shame that this film got so shortchanged at the box office. One of the ugly things about The Dark Knight was that the hype just swamped everything else that came out in 2008, which is unfortunate because 2008 was a fantastic year at the movies... the best I can remember for a long time. We got Iron Man which was terrific fun. Of course, there was The Dark Knight too. There was Burn After Reading, which is one the best comedies I have seen for a long time and for me, it was one of those very rare treats... a flawless movie. We also got a terrific Bond film (albeit with the worst Bond song I can recall and some unwelcome Bourne-style choppy editing). Quantum of Solace could be the most enjoyable Bond film since From Russia With Love - I don't give a damn what the critics say - and it was a far more entertaining film than its predecessor.

And we got Hellboy II: The Golden Army, which for me was the most surprising film I'd seen all year.

I didn't know anything about it going in and I think in hindsight, the movie wasn't marketed well enough. Perhaps if the previews had let us get a better glimpse of the characters, it would have helped. The preview I saw seemed as if it were only geared towards people who were familiar with the first movie. I didn't know what to expect from the preview and it looked like maybe it was a fantasy horror movie or something. However, while I have since discovered that the Hellboy comics have a bit of a horror angle to them, the movies are good rollicking adventures... and the second one has a beautifully realised fantasy element.

Anyway, my brother had seen the first Hellboy and he suggested that I might like to go along with him to watch the sequel. So, there I was, not knowing anything about Hellboy, let alone this particular movie, sitting down to watch it in the dark theatre. I came out an hour and some minutes afterwards (it was less than two hours which is a real blessing in this age of bloated running times) absolutely hooked. It's actually a really great example of a stand-alone sequel. You don't need to have seen the first one to understand it.

However, I caught up pretty quickly afterwards, I can tell you. In fact, I went and bought the first Hellboy DVD and I loved that too... although the films are quite different in tone.

After watching Hellboy on DVD, I really wanted to see Hellboy II at the cinema again but it finished its run before I had a chance... and I think that was a real pity. All those other cinema patrons who didn't get a chance to see it on the big screen really missed out - because it is a gorgeous film. Just from a visual standpoint, it is one of the most extraordinary feats of imagination I've seen. Take the well-known scene of the troll market for instance. A lot of reviewers comment that seeing Hellboy and his pals walk into the troll market evokes the same feeling you get when you watch Luke enter the Mos Eisley cantina in Star Wars and I felt the same way. However, there's so much more than just that one scene. Obviously, there's the amazing prosphetic makeup on all the main characters - which has to be seen to be believed. Hellboy's prosphetics don't look as good this time round unfortunately (his neck seems too short) but Abe looks great (and it's nice that Doug Jones gets to do the voice this time!). The elves look really amazing - very ethereal but also with a slightly animalistic appearance to their eyes. This is especially true for the elvern prince, Nuada, who at times evokes a pacing lion when he's fighting the protagonist. His henchman, Mr Wink, is truly stunning, and if you get a hold of the 2-Disc Special Edition, you should absolutely check out the behind-the-scenes documentary to see how they made his prosphetic mask - amazing. There's also a fantastic character whose eyes are positioned along wings attached to its body - it's really creative stuff.

And the sets look beautiful. The library in the Bureau of Paranormal Research and Defense where Hellboy works is gorgeous to look at - with its gold trimmed wood pannelling contrasted againts beautiful red carpet and the blue of the water tank where Abe sometimes rests. And the setting for the movie's finale is nothing short of extraordinary - the finale neither.

Again, if you've got the 2 Disc DVD, I can't recommend that behind-the-scenes documentary highly enough. It's amazing to watch the stunts they did for real (you won't believe what some of these east Asian stuntment are capable of), see all sorts of details you might miss on a first viewing of the film, visit the incredible sets, see how the technicians behind the creature design worked with the actors to bring all the amazing characters to life on the screen... and so much more.

Now, I've had a lot of DVDs that have come with bonus behind-the-scenes material and I have to say for the most part, these features are a complete waste of time. Take The Dark Knight's features for example - a series of short features that were available on the net anyway, some scenes from the movie shown in their IMAX ratio (which might be really great if you have an IMAX screen in your living room!) and a half-hearted effort of showing how a couple of action sequences were filmed.

Quantum of Solace, on the other hand, didn't have any bonus disc to speak of - and I was completely fine with that. I saw the Casino Royale bonus disc and I thought if that's all they can come up with, then they shouldn't bother with a second disc at all. I wish more studios would do the same - i.e. if they've got nothing interesting to include as a bonus then they shouldn't waste their time. Anyway, most of the time we're happy just to watch the movie and furthermore, not all movies warrant behind-the-scenes features. Or if they just want to throw in some short features, they could just put them on the same disc as the main movie. The studio that released Burn After Reading did this and it seemed much more dignified doing it that way than slapping those odd two-minute features on a second disc... who would have thought that guys as sharp as the Coen brothers would be so awkward when discussing their films in front of a camera? Anyway...

However, every now and then, there are some bonus discs which are really amazing. Anyone who bought the 4-Disc extended edtions for each of The Lord of the Rings films certainly got more than their money's worth with the wealth of fascinating material that was provided there. The bonus discs for the original Batman movies (regardless of whether you got the individual 2-Disc editions or you bought the Anthology) were really interesting... well, at least the ones for Batman and Batman Returns. Although, I did like some of the deleted scenes for Batman Forever and it was nice to hear Joel Schumacher apologise for Batman and Robin. I don't think I've ever come across a behind-the-scenes feature that was that honest before. I have to give kudos to the guy. That was pretty decent of him to step up there and take the flak - especially when the studio and the toy companies had their fair share of responsibility for that mess as well.

But I digress...

The bonus material that came with the Hellboy is also excellent and the features you get with Hellboy II are first-class. Hell, even the commentary's great. Guillermo Del Toro does a solo commentary track for the movie and it's really interesting. He's also very entertaining too and when I say these things, bear in mind that I'm actually not very big on commentary tracks. Usually, I don't have the patience for them - I didn't even listen to all the commentary tracks for The Lord of the Rings films. However, I spent a very relaxing evening with Guillermo explaining lots of tidbits about the process of making his movie - he's good company. Now I'm not saying I'll watch all his other films - I tried Pan's Labyrinth for instance and while it's very good, it was far too intense for the likes of me - but I really like the guy. More than just a talented director, he comes across as a really gentle and good-natured person. He's probably one of the few people in the movie business I'd actually like to meet.

Now onto some closing remarks about the film. Do I think it's a flawless film like Burn After Reading? No, it's got a couple of problems - including one of those typical sequel scenes when the ordinary people turn on the hero. The scene just comes out of nowhere, feels forced and pointless. To tell you the truth though, I'm not too keen on the citizens-turning-on-the-hero cliche. They had it in The Dark Knight as well and it was annoying there too. Next time I see it in a movie, I really hope it's followed by a scene where the hero turns their back on the ungrateful populace and leaves them to whatever the villain's got in store for them.

After watching the original, there were a couple of other things that I didn't like. At the end of the first Hellboy, our hero had patched up his relationship with the head of the B.P.R.D, Dr Manning - yet in this movie, it is as if that never happened. And while the interactions between Hellboy and Manning are amusing, it would have been nice if they had kept the relationship a little more amiable.

Another thing is that I missed Marco Beltrami's score for the first movie, especially the main Hellboy theme. I wonder if they were unable to use it because Hellboy II was made by a different studio. Perhaps, the first studio had the rights to the themes of the original score. I don't know. Now, I did like a few of the new Danny Elfman themes but overall, it just wasn't as strong nor as memorable as the music in the first movie.

On the other hand, there were definite improvements. It seemed like there was more life and variety in the movie this time round. Hellboy wasn't fighting the same creatures again and again. Also, the antagonist of the film - I didn't consider him a villain per se - was a vast improvement over the villains of the first film. He was far more interesting. Yes, Kroenen was quite creepy and he had a lot of strong scenes but I didn't miss him - and I certainly didn't miss Rasputin or Illsa. The overall story was more engaging this time as well. No, without John Hurt and those poignant scenes with his character, it doesn't have the same emotional resonance as the first film but it's still very interesting. Another thing about it is that it's a very straightforward and simple story - which is another rarity these days - and I for one think this movie speaks volumes on the merits of keeping things simple.

Oddly enough as well, while I quite liked Agent Myers, I didn't feel disappointed that he wasn't in the second one. Actually, Guillermo showed good sense in his exclusion. I wish more directors would realise that when there's nowhere left for a character to go, and if they're not really needed for the story, then it's better to leave them out. If directors did this, we could avoid the terrible cinema sequel phenomomen of character degradation - where not knowing what else to do with one of their original characters, they alter them and use them in silly ways. Usually, this involves using a character for laughs. For examples of this, consider what happened to Threepio in the Star Wars trilogy. A lot of people forget that he was actually fairly likeable in Star Wars and was somewhat dignified - although you wouldn't know it from The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Fans of Buffy the Vampire Slayer would be familiar with what the producers did to Xander's character over the series and most of us remember what happened to Legolas and Gimli in The Lord of the Rings movies.

So yes, some of what made the first Hellboy movie what it was is lost in this sequel but a lot more is gained.

In closing, if you are a fan of the original movie and you're not sure about this one as it's said to be a little different, take a chance and check it out. I'd be very surprised if you didn't get something out of the experience. And if you're new to Hellboy like I was, have a look at this one or check out the first movie and then watch this.

These movies deserve a wider audience.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 29 January 2010 - 11:45 AM

[daxosam]

Hellboy 2 can be added to a growing list of films participating in what I would call a renaissance in the design. and It's a movie full of exotic effects makeup, sets and costumes and even brilliantly designed digital puppets, all added to a story so nice with a quality stock.

[civilian_number_two]

Holy shit MG. I didn't know this was here (thank god for spammers; just don't follow their links!). What a great review. All over the place, sure, with references to unrelated movies like Burn After Reading (which is excellent), but a great read even more for that. Keep em comin, this place is dead.

I too saw Hellboy 2 without having seen 1, and I still have not seen the first. I adored it, but having seen Pan's Labyrinth first, I was hoping for something a little more serious. That said, there are some great moments, such as the victory over the elemental forest god. Necessary to save the ungrateful humans, but now we have lost a creature with no equal; it was a sad environmental message, and a tragic note uncommon in action films. Again I really think I would have enjoyed the movie even more without Pan's Labyrinth, but that's the problem with raised expectations.

This post has been edited by civilian_number_two: 18 April 2011 - 04:31 PM

[Just your average movie goer]

Wow. There's life in these old forums and recent activity as well, at that. I was just checking the forums out for old time's sake to see if anything was going on and found recent replies. Anyway, hey there, Civilian! It's been a while. Glad you liked the review - yeah, it does go all over the place, I realised. I think I was just so excited to see that there was a thread on Hellboy II that I got carried away.

It's not a perfect movie by any means, but it's great fun and it's a shame it didn't get a wider audience.

As for what you said coming in from the Pan's Labyrinth angle, I can certainly understand that. What you expect from a movie going in certainly affects the experience, no doubt about it. For instance, a large part of why I didn't enjoy The Dark Knight as much as the rest of the world is that I was quite keen to see Batman Begins II and that wasn’t what it was. So I know the feeling.

Actually, I wish I could have got more into Pan's Labyrinth to be quite honest. It’s a very evocative film and there’s a lot of interesting subtext and themes running throughout it… but it's a pretty heavy film. I don't think it pulls a single punch - they all connect and they connect hard. Compared to that film, The Dark Knight feels like light escapism. Hell, it makes King Lear feel like a laugh. So compared to that, Hellboy II, which is light fare already, would feel doubly so.

Actually though, I found Hellboy II's light touch to be a good thing. I know that exp​ression 'fun for the whole family' usually induces groans and generally for good reason, but the movie genuinely works on that level. That said, I'm a little concerned by something Del Toro has said behind the scenes with regards to a part in the movie where it's suggested that Hellboy's destiny is to bring about the destruction of the world. There’s nothing wrong with that scene per se. It fits and the angel of death-type character that suggests this is of course that awesome creation with all those eyes in its wings (which itself felt like an evolved version of one of the creatures in Pan's Labyrinth).

However, Del Toro’s interpretation of that scene somewhat bothers me – and that is that Hellboy is an inevitably doomed character and that if there ever is a third film in the series, it'll have to end on a tragic note. I can't say I'm keen on this and if that's the path they’d take, anything that prevents a final instalment coming around is a blessing in my opinion. It seems to me that one of the defining points of the character is that he has defied his destiny from the outset - and the fitting approach would be to show that only he can control his destiny, and that prophecies hold no sway over him.

Also, I strongly dislike tragedies at the purely conceptual level. Sure, those Shakespearian plays like Hamlet and King Lear are some of the most interesting things we study in high school, but while they’re endlessly quotable, I don’t find myself rushing back to re-read them anytime soon. The problem with tragedies, as I see it, is that no matter how many people argue to the contrary, they’re not life-like. When tragedy strikes in life, it passes. Time brings comfort and people eventually move on. In a movie, the tragedy strikes and the credits roll and that's it. No comfort, no time to come to terms with it - just a downer ending for the sake of a downer ending. Call me old-fashioned but I like my endings to be at least somewhat uplifting. Also, downer endings often make me wonder why I sat through something in the first place. That’s probably the main reason why people hate Alien3 for instance (apart from the fact that there’s no plausible explanation for how it kicks off and that it just plain sucks). It completely negates the first two films in the series. <Note to self: A thread on Alien and the related movies might be a nice idea, especially since Ridley Scott’s rumoured to currently be working on a prequel.> Anyway, I can’t see what good killing off Hellboy would do apart from pleasing a handful of fans who like their movies as dark as possible, while disappointing everyone else. Hell, in the commentary, Del Toro himself says that he wouldn’t want to turn the series in that direction (but yet, feels that if he made another film, he’d be compelled to).

Mr, Del Toro, if you’re reading this, you don’t have to. Have the title character defy pre-destiny, prophecy and all the rest of it. It’s also a great message to send to the kids. Also, while you’re at it, don’t bring back the villains from the first movie. After the tragic figure of Prince Nuada in the second film, cardboard black-and-white villains would be a definite step back. They worked well enough the first time around – but let them rest. Also, they’re dead. So…... yeah.

However, if we don’t get another Hellboy, I think Hellboy II is a perfectly fine way to end the series. It’s not actually a happy ending per se either. It’s more bittersweet, but it’s uplifting.

Actually, one could say that about the whole movie to be honest – and I think that’s what makes this movie so appealing despite it’s minor flaws. There are moments of plot contrivance. Some moments feel a little odd. I mentioned that scene where the city turns on Hellboy (where does that come from?). It’s especially jarring, as it comes right on the heels of that very strong scene you mention, Civilian, where Hellboy is forced to destroy a magnificent and unique creature in order to save the people around him. However, the movie is made with love and it shows. Everyone involved in the project was passionate about it. The characters, despite their obvious eccentricities, are so genuine. Hellboy, for all the fact that he is a bright red demon originally destined to bring about the destruction of the world, is very much an ordinary guy. They have genuine needs. Nobody goes off on long monologues like in the Dark Knight (seriously, dialogue in that movie occasionally comes off like a series of lectures in a philosophy course). Also, for all the big world-saving themes involved, it is a very intimate story about a handful of characters and this really allows the audience to connect to the movie much more. There should be far more movies like this.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 16 April 2011 - 09:31 PM

[J m HofMarN]

Ello ello, mate! Come back to see if Hannibal had returned yet did you? It's great to see youre still out there, and still going to the movies. I never got too into the Hellboy series, though I found them enjoyable, but I'm right there wth you about Burn After Reading. That was a hell of a different movie, and everything they did in it somehow worked flawlessly.

Are you looking forward to Guillermo Del Toro doing H P Lovecraft as much as I am?

[Just your average movie goer]

Hey mate. Good to see you. Yeah, I miss that guy too... oh, wait a minute. I don't. Well, I'd like to see anything Del Toro puts his hand to, to tell you the truth. At least, I'd like to check it out (even if I flinch and shy away as I did with Pan's Labyrinth). However, it really seems as though the man is having a string of awful bad luck these days with projects being cancelled and pulled out from under him. So as to the H.P. Lovecraft film, yeah, I'll certainly check it out if it materialises. However, I'm always a little unsure about the future of these things, with Hollywood being what it is. I hope it materialises, I really do. We need far fewer Transformers II style films (and far less Michael Bay while we're at it) and more of these out-of-the-blue movies like Burn After Reading and Hellboy II.

It's good to see that everyone here's a fan of Burn After Reading too, by the way. The sheer idea of using an idiot plot as the main narrative device is conceptually nothing short of brilliant... and the execution is just flawless. There isn't a single wasted frame in that movie; it should be compulsory viewing for any aspiring filmmaker.

This post has been edited by Just your average movie goer: 17 April 2011 - 04:28 AM

[J m HofMarN]

There are previews out for Mountains of Madness, I'll be going to see it since it has an opening date, so it's definitely happening (much like The Hobbit, FUCK YES!)

I think Burn After Reading really went into different territory, taking James Bond stuff and portraying it in a realistic, human, and yet hilarious fashion. It also challenged the actors in it to play normal if somewhat stupid individuals. Turning Brad Pitt and George Clooney into 30-40ish losers is really an achievement. If you check out the extras they talk about how they did the costuming and such to convey that, and it's a very different thing from what most movies do.

By the way, from one sorta film connoisseur to another, check out How To Train Your Dragon. I can safely say it's the best animated film since Lion King.

By the way, if you loved Hannibal you should drop by the debate club and check out some of Deucaon's work. He had 3 different troll sock puppets, each more of a crazy libertarian than the last!

[Just your average movie goer]

OK. So Mountains of Madness is actually coming. Cool. Oh, I've seen How to Train Your Dragon. The Lion King really didn't do it for me, but How to Train Your Dragon was surprisingly good. And Burn After Reading with the James Bond stuff, yeah. It's a thriller about absolutely nothing of consequence. Awesomeness. Also, while I'm not normally a fan of Brad Pitt, he was great in this. He's got a gift for comedy. Perhaps we oughta start a thread on that but at the moment, I'm busy stirring controversy with my ALIEN thread. Good times.

And no, I think I'll pass on seeing another Internet troll at work. It's bad enough when your eye slips from a YouTube video to the comments section. I don't want to deliberately go looking for online idiocy. Anyway, nice to see you again, JM.