[Saberist]

Helena,

>>
No it's not. If Anakin's relationship with Luke's mother was so bad at that time that Luke had to be hidden from him, why the hell would she have another child with him 2 years later?
>>

Imagine: Padme` (or whoever) is raped by Darth and carries the child to term but 'really doesn't want to be around it', after. Kid gets dropped off on Tatooine to live with Uncle Owen, family retainer or simple friend/acquaintance.

A couple years later, she conceives a child with Anakin who IS wanted and runs with her when the fall of the Jedi makes life hard for their families.

It would certainly stand to reason that Anakin would be pissed at having Darth put one in his woman.

>>
That's not the point. If 'Darth Vader' was originally mean as Anakin's 'fake' name, why did he change it to a title later? The only obvious reason for doing that was this: He originally planned for the two to be different people, changed his mind by the time of ESB, and decided that making 'Darth' a title would be simpler than explaining why Anakin had changed his name.
>>

In theory, you could make Lord an assumptive (Prerogative? It's been awhile since I studied the royal title systems) and Darth a conveyed or titular rank.

'All Aristos are Lords but Vader is an Iron Duke.'

It could also be an unrelated title with separate meaning to the Sith culture/religion specifically. Prior to the Rule Of Two nonsense, The Sith sound like a lot more interesting GROUP identity. Given the PT doesn't really tell us anything at all about them, acknowledging any details of their belief system or class structure is pointless if there are 'only two' but it may be a case of traditions dying last as a form of clique identity.

>>
Actually, yes, I can be certain. ALL the evidence points that way and absolutely none in the other direction. Just because I can only be 99.99% certain rather than 100% certain doesn't mean that my opinions are nothing but 'speculation'. There are times when it really doesn't pay to play devil's advocate, xenduck; you either end up looking stupid or completely unwilling to face reality.
>>

My problem is the 'Leia remembers Mommy and her hiding in a trunk together' thing from the ROTJ novelization tends to indicate that Luke and She were separated both from each other and from their parents at separate times with Leia either the older sister or one who remained with her mother long enough to /become/ mental-age able to remember specific events.

If they are twin born, it becomes possible to do this only as a function of Mommy Whoever thinking one of them is dead. She carries Leia in her arms, Obiwan/Anakin the other in their's, Big Boom and you cry when you have time to weep. Such would also give a justifiable reason for MW to be 'very sad' at losing the Husband/Lover/Friend AND her other kid...

That said, if the Lars' get the kid only as a handoff, it's equally possible that they don't know Luke's precise age either. I'm sure that SWU can scan the human equivalent to tree rings (probably cellular division rates and/or bone length/calcification) but again, _if this is a Jedi kid_ they may be terrified of the consequences of getting caught and an MCC fraction would be a giveaway.


Saberist

[civilian_number_two]

WTF?

Saberist, were you responding there to specific posts but not actaully quoting them? I ask because not having a memory of where this thread was 9 months ago, I had a really hard time following any of that ( I know I know browse backward).

It sounds like you agree that Lucas made things up as he went along, and that there were consequences to this, on being that the novelization of JEDI contained more elements that are hard to reconcile with the story as it is told n the prequels. Well if that's the case of course I agree. Lucas made it up as he went along. And yeah, big deal.

[Chefelf]

Saberist, were you responding there to specific posts but not actaully quoting them? I ask because not having a memory of where this thread was 9 months ago, I had a really hard time following any of that ( I know I know browse backward).

9 months ago? Helena's last post on this topic was on June 5, 2005! Almost four years ago!

[civilian_number_two]

Four years? Yikes I have known you guys for a long time.

[Slade]

But Bond posted in 2007. Also, Civ is old.

[sillytxgirly]

Alright let me post on this four year old topic... So i am 29 and have never seen a Star Wars movie. None of them -new or old or prequels or whatever. I just watched the first ,or should i say oldest one, last night. Started watching the next one today and had to stop to google. Even never having seen Star Wars you don't grow up in this world not knowing some fundamental maybe absorbed through osmosis facts. So ... when Leia and luke kiss in the hospital at the start of the 2nd one i had to google " are leia and luke siblings " . That brings me here and to what i ultimately had to say.... OMG YOU PEOPLE ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS FOUR YEARS LATER!!!!!

[sillytxgirly]

sillytxgirly, on 16 December 2009 - 04:48 AM, said:

Alright let me post on this four year old topic... So i am 29 and have never seen a Star Wars movie. None of them -new or old or prequels or whatever. I just watched the first ,or should i say oldest one, last night. Started watching the next one today and had to stop to google. Even never having seen Star Wars you don't grow up in this world not knowing some fundamental maybe absorbed through osmosis facts. So ... when Leia and luke kiss in the hospital at the start of the 2nd one i had to google " are leia and luke siblings " . That brings me here and to what i ultimately had to say.... OMG YOU PEOPLE ARE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS FOUR YEARS LATER!!!!!

oh and can i add.. if i were a woman who just had twins, a boy and a girl sired by a man who went more than a little crazy and who very possibly passed some genetic predisposition to use the force for evil and i lived in a time and culture that thinks the force is stronger in male children even without seeing some inclination of that presence within my son i could probably have been persuaded to send him to live with relatives who would teach him humility and hard work and who would do all they could to hide his existence from a father who might seek to use him and to postpone his exposure to the academy or any other awareness of his ability. just sayin... if. and maybe all that makin out is what hormone ruled kids do if they have no idea they might be related so.. guess anyone can come up with viable arguments on either side of the debate so... no one but that Lucas guy knows what that Lucas guy was thinkin.

[civilian_number_two]

sillytxgirly, on 16 December 2009 - 05:04 AM, said:

no one but that Lucas guy knows what that Lucas guy was thinkin.

Nah. His evolving thought process has been well documented. He made it up as he went along, Luke and Leia weren't siblings in STAR WARS and EMPIRE but they became so later, Vader was not Luke's father until EMPIRE, the "other" was always supposed to be someone else but Lucas got lazy, etc. His claims that the whole thing ran smoothly according to a plan he'd come up with in the mid-70s is so ridiculous and so frequently and openly contradicted that it is amazing not only that he continues to make the claims but that his rabid fanbase continue to defend them.