the gap between empire and every other star wars film is massive
#1
Posted 02 December 2005 - 05:58 PM
#2
Posted 02 December 2005 - 06:28 PM
I'm not sure about your RotS bit though.
#5
Posted 03 December 2005 - 05:51 PM
Yes, good point.
#6
Posted 03 December 2005 - 07:50 PM
The official explanation to that is that maybe Obi-Wan did not rate girls as possible warriors, or simply had forgotten Leia was not an option because she "was too old to be trained" or better, forgot her because of "The Force"
My personal explanation is that Lucas, once again, forgot his (and a lot of other persons) work on the OT and did not remembered that line from Obi-Wan in ESB. Also Yoda just says "there is another" he does not even imply that is Luke's Sister, at the of ESB it could be anyone, chewbacca, Yoda's mother in law, whatever. Lucas just decided the Luke sister being Leia when writing ROTJ to wrap up the trilogy.
I read somewhere that ended the first ideia for "the other one" was Luke's twin sister, but it was not supposed to be Leia, instead ROTJ would be something like a quest to find the hidden Luke's Sister. But Lucas choose the easy (and less believable) path.
#7
Posted 04 December 2005 - 01:15 AM
#8
Posted 04 December 2005 - 01:51 AM
(Insert insane maniacal laughter here)
"And the Evil that was vanquished shall rise anew. Wrapped in the guise of man shall he walk amongst the innocent and Terror shall consume they that dwell upon the Earth. The skies will rain fire. The seas shall become as blood. The righteous shall fall before the wicked! And all creation shall tremble before the burning standards of Hell!" - Mephisto
Kurgan X showed me this web comic done with Legos. It pokes fun at all six Star Wars films and I found it to be extremely entertaining.
<a href="http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html" target="_blank">http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/cast/starwars.html</a>
#10
Posted 04 December 2005 - 07:58 AM
(Insert insane maniacal laughter here)
Yes... that is the most likely explanation.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
#11
Posted 04 December 2005 - 02:38 PM
My personal explanation is that Lucas, once again, forgot his (and a lot of other persons) work on the OT and did not remembered that line from Obi-Wan in ESB. Also Yoda just says "there is another" he does not even imply that is Luke's Sister, at the of ESB it could be anyone, chewbacca, Yoda's mother in law, whatever. Lucas just decided the Luke sister being Leia when writing ROTJ to wrap up the trilogy.
I read somewhere that ended the first ideia for "the other one" was Luke's twin sister, but it was not supposed to be Leia, instead ROTJ would be something like a quest to find the hidden Luke's Sister. But Lucas choose the easy (and less believable) path.
Yeah, Obi-Wan's forgetting of Leia is a serious flaw, even worse than the father's lightsaber one or the "Vader betrayed and murdered your father," or "years ago you served my father," and "never owning a droid," crap. At least these can be exlained away as exaggeration or "a certain point of view" rationalizing. But not this one...
He forgets about Leia, even though he helped deliver herm, true. It isn't as if he thought she died, because she was alive and well when he last saw her (and he knew about the plan to give her to the Organas, and her first name was never changed!), plus even though his spirit didn't appear in front of Leia until the end of ROTJ (and we don't know for sure if anyone besides Luke can see them then anyway) it's not like he couldn't have "observed" and see that Leia was fine. She was the same age as Luke, so she'd have aged four years beyond when Luke began his training, and yet Obi-Wan was more willing to begin training Luke at his "old" age, not reluctant at all like Yoda (who made it more of an excuse than anything). And Yoda planned for Luke to train Leia anyway, per ROTJ.
And as a Jedi Spirit he's still as ignorant as before?
This really is a major continuity gaffe!
Edit: To clarify, it was not really a gaffe until ROTS, because instead of explaining it, they simply screwed it up, by making Obi-Wan forget all these important people and events in his life 19 years ago.
True, ROTJ decided that Leia was the "other" and Luke's sister, which Lucas made up as he went along (just like having Vader be Luke's father in ESB respectively). But the real gaffe is in ROTS since they at least could have attempted to explain why Obi-Wan didn't know about Leia's potential. It's like the R2D2 gaffe.. they could have made an effort to seperate the two in the story instead of slamming them together to make it more exciting for that one movie, and stomping all over established continuity in the process.
The only explanation is senility that follows him into the afterlife I guess! Had his memory erased in Anchorhead...
This post has been edited by KurganX: 04 December 2005 - 02:44 PM
#12
Posted 04 December 2005 - 07:11 PM
#13
Posted 04 December 2005 - 07:30 PM
The only explanation is senility that follows him into the afterlife I guess! Had his memory erased in Anchorhead...
I'm not sure about it's a ROTS issue
This was in the movie:
LUKE
But I have no sister.
BEN
Hmm. To protect you both from the Emperor,
you were hidden from your father when you
were born. The Emperor knew, as I did, if
Anakin were to have any offspring, they would
be a threat to him. That is the reason why
your sister remains safely anonymous.
LUKE
Leia! Leia's my sister.
BEN
Your insight serves you well. Bury your
feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit.
But they could be made to serve the Emperor.
But the script had more, which never made to the movie:
Luke looks into the distance, trying to comprehend all this.
BEN (continuing his narrative)
When your father left, he didn't know your
mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew
he would find out eventually, but we wanted
to keep you both as safe as possible, for as
long as possible. So I took you to live with
my brother Owen on Tatooine... and your mother
took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator
Organa, on Alderaan.
Luke turns, and settles near Ben to hear the tale.
BEN (attempting to give solace with his words)
The Organa household was high-born and
politically quite powerful in that system.
Leia became a princess by virtue of
lineage... no one knew she'd been adopted, of
course. But it was a title without real
power, since Alderaan had long been a
democracy. Even so, the family continued to
be politically powerful, and Leia, following
in her foster father's path, became a senator
as well. That's not all she became, of
course... she became the leader of her cell
in the Alliance against the corrupt Empire.
And because she had diplomatic immunity, she
was a vital link for getting information to
the Rebel cause. That's what she was doing
when her path crossed yours... for her foster
parents had always told her to contact me on
Tatooine, if her troubles became desperate.
Luke is overwhelmed by the truth, and is suddenly protective of
his sister.
LUKE
But you can't let her get involved now, Ben.
Vader will destroy her.
BEN
She hasn't been trained in the ways of the
Jedi the way you have, Luke ... but the Force
is strong with her, as it is with all of your
family. There is no avoiding the battle. You
must face and destroy Vader!
So the original view by Lucas for ROTJ is that Ben knew Leia's existence all the time (as Luke's Sister), not sure why in ESB he seems to be unware she even exists! But of course, Owen changed from Obi-Wan Brother to Anakin step Brother, and Leia was supposed to have lived with Padme for at least a couple of years, Lucas , again, Changed all this
#14
Posted 05 December 2005 - 06:27 PM
it was smudge. ROTS made it a 'flaw'
ROTS turned a scratch into a gaping hole!
if Obi-wan had only known she was pregnant and only yoda present during the 'birthing' (blech) then it would have been fine.
this is my whole point about the PT. the few responsibilities that come with making such films have been overlooked. and the oportunity to repair minor glitches was not only wasted but became a bizar quest to make things worse... like a surgeon who asks for a suture and gets handed a jackhammer.
sorrry, jar... i went a little analogy heavy there...
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#15
Posted 05 December 2005 - 07:11 PM
and continuing from above...
LUKE
ah... you know i snogged her.
BEN
who
LUKE
liea... my sister
BEN
that's disgusting
LUKE
well maybe if you had said something when we first went to rescue her it could all have been avoided. especially after the embarrasing display i gave han after we got her...
BEN
hmmm...
LUKE
so i tried to kill my father and i made out with my sister... anyother family secrets i should know before i commit any other crimes against nature?
BEN
well, now that you mention it the emporer's your grandfather... but not in the traditional sense so it might be okay to at least kill him.
This post has been edited by barend: 05 December 2005 - 07:13 PM
Also: The Chefelf.com Lord of the Rings | RoBUTZ (a primative webcomic) | KOTOR 1 NPC profiles |
Music: HYPOID (industrial rock) | Spectrox Toxemia (Death Metal) | Cannibalingus (80s style thrash metal) | Wasabi Nose Bleed (Exp.Techno) | DeadfeeD (Exp.Ambient) |||(more to come)