[El_Gostro]

And on that last note and barging in this thread uninvited and unknown ,I ll provide a more specific answer to whoemever may wonder as to why and how...

KA-CHING!



Being a little bit more serious...
Many of the things Castro has been acussed of are probably true and many he did and are rarely mentioned (ironically and peculiarly enough by the United States of the nameless country themselvess) are quite more possible...
Many of my old relatives were involved in the anarchist movements of Argentina at the beggining of the century,and in his prime my father often tripulated in the merchant Vessels that shipped goods to the cuban revolutionary movement,so I managed to get some good acceptably neutral tidbits of how the ball was being rolled around in those times....

Am I bashing Castro or preaching against him?

Hell no,to me it is simply ,pre petty evidence of moronic behaviour the idiot leader stricken country I was born in continues to demonstrate.

Not having enough guts to be frank and say "we want and will nail Castro because we feel very macho with our missile condoms" instead of shouting like a girl and inflicting the utterly kindergarten minded solution of further impoverishing the lives of the cuban people in order to say "See,teacher? Castro is a bad boy!He's a bad boy!Why won t you hear me!!! teacher!Guys!Where you going?

In fact,I applaud the bearded man for having been able to keep showing his bare buttocks in defiance to Uncle Sam,outliving even the USSR


One last comment,though I was born in the states I lived my whole life with my family in Argentina,when I finally revisited the land I was concieved in...
Well it didnt really look very different of any other third world country on the continent,just a little bit more gloomy and with uglier buildings

Okay,long rant don't pay me attention ,been awake for 30 hours now ...

This post has been edited by El_Gostro: 30 January 2007 - 11:38 PM

[Renegade]

The bottom line is nobody goes to Cuba to live. People who do live there already may live there fine and it's not a shit hole but its not somewhere people would voluntarily emigrate too either. Most people remain in their countries because of their families and their history and the fact that its very difficult to just uproot your life however crappy it may be in a country. Anyway, point is Cuba isn't exaclty paradise to live at but its tolerable in comparison to the other 3rd world countries.

[J m HofMarN]

Slade- The point is that people want to leave Mexico in great numbers, but no one goes about calling Mexico a commie dictatorship. There are a lot of reasons people want to flee south america for the US and to simply say "In Cuba, it's because their government is mean, but in the rest of the world it's because of the economy" is just off the wall logic.

Gostro- Ah from Che Guevara's own country. I'd be very interested to hear about your experiences. From what I understand Argentina under Peron was a great friend to Castro, but only before he took power. The reason is simple: Eva died in 52 and Juan didn't last much longer in power. However I do recall that the good Colonel returned to the Presidency sometime in the seventies, so maybe that's when these shipments occured, its confusing since Juan Peron occupied the Presidency of Argentina twice. Once before the revolution when he helped Fidel try to form a South American student movement in Venezuela and once well after the triumph at Santa Clara.

Anyhow I do have to call you on one point:

"we want and will nail Castro because we feel very macho with our missile condoms"

Before Castro was a communist party member, before he even saw anyone from the USSR, the US tried to kill him. They gave bombs, rockets, and fuel to the Battista dictatorship as well as bullets and tanks. These weapons were used against the peasantry that was sympathetic to Fidels revolution. Raul Castro, operating independently, kidnapped 50 Americans and demanded that the government stop arms shipments to Battista. The US did so only after Fidel ordered the release of the hostages, who had all been treated well.

As he was marching towards Havana American diplomats put a military Junta in charge of the country in hopes that they could fight Castro off. As soon as his revolution achieved victory the CIA began drafting plans for his murder. And then, TWO full years later, they wondered why he went to communism and was somewhat insensitive to US interests.

Renegade-

"The bottom line is nobody goes to Cuba to live"

Hemignway had a house in Cuba which he occupied well after the revolution. Ginsberg visited Cuba, though he had a fight with Fidel and decided to leave. That's just two famous ones. I'm sure there are some Americans living in Cuba, probably for political reasons.

"Anyway, point is Cuba isn't exaclty paradise to live at but its tolerable in comparison to the other 3rd world countries."

Alright I'm glad we can establish that. Now the question is why. With the US trying to make it intolerable, blocking shipments of cars, medicine, and musical instruments (a man in New York is facing prison time for sending piannos to Cuba) I think that Cuba is successful because Castro cares about the people and makes public works a priority, unlike many former leaders in Latin America. The US has a long history of hatred and propaganda against populist leaders who want to empower workers and might not be friendly to free trade (which is a term for US dominated trade). Look at Peron, Chavez and Castro, look at the Arbenz and Allende PRESIDENCIES, both of which were ruthlessly overthrown on Washington's orders.

[Otal Nimrodi]

I say, the good old Renegade Versus JM battles. I miss 'em.

[Renegade]

"The bottom line is nobody goes to Cuba to live"

Hemignway had a house in Cuba which he occupied well after the revolution. Ginsberg visited Cuba, though he had a fight with Fidel and decided to leave. That's just two famous ones. I'm sure there are some Americans living in Cuba, probably for political reasons.

"Anyway, point is Cuba isn't exaclty paradise to live at but its tolerable in comparison to the other 3rd world countries."

Alright I'm glad we can establish that. Now the question is why. With the US trying to make it intolerable, blocking shipments of cars, medicine, and musical instruments (a man in New York is facing prison time for sending piannos to Cuba) I think that Cuba is successful because Castro cares about the people and makes public works a priority, unlike many former leaders in Latin America. The US has a long history of hatred and propaganda against populist leaders who want to empower workers and might not be friendly to free trade (which is a term for US dominated trade). Look at Peron, Chavez and Castro, look at the Arbenz and Allende PRESIDENCIES, both of which were ruthlessly overthrown on Washington's orders.

Well artists are odd balls but neway most regular joes aren't gonna wanna live in Cuba. Lets face it, when you think of places you'd like to live in, i think most people would be hard pressed to say OH YA ID LIKE TO LIVE IN CUBA ! Neway, i already agreed with you about it being shitty partially because of us so its not fair to say that Cuba is unlivable because of Castro since there are outside forces that make sure its as unlivable as possible.

[J m HofMarN]

Renegade- I am an artist, so I guess that explains my desire to go check out our neighbor to the Southeast.

[Renegade]

No your a commie not an artist, there is a difference though the two can be interchangable at times

[Slade]

Actually, he's painted some stuff and sold it to local galleries.

[J m HofMarN]

Actually, I'm a card carrying communist AND an artist.

[Spoon Poetic]

How does a small piece of paper/plastic make someone a Communist? Especially when they live in a very not-Communist country? I'm not trying to make fun, I'm really wondering here. What's the point of the card? Shock value? Can you be a Communist and nothave a card? I just don't understand the need for a card.

This post has been edited by Spoon Poetic: 02 February 2007 - 03:29 PM

[Gobbler]

Cards are shiny. And you can do that open-doors-with-cards trick with them. And since communism is all about sharing, you can't go without one, since you obviously need to have one to do that open-doors-with-cards trick and steal... err... I mean, share other people's... err, I mean... everyone's belongings.

[J m HofMarN]

Spoon- The communist party in Cuba was actually outlawed until the revolution. Communists trying to organize and run for office would typicly be disappeared. Then the revolution came and look where they are now. The simple fact that a country is not currently communist dosn't mean anything.

And yes, you can be a communist without party membership. Che Guevara and Fidel Castro are both examples of this. They held very much to communist ideals like social justice and agrarian reform, but due to organizational differences they didn't join the communist party for a long while. I agree with the communists' platform and want to pay my dues and help out, and having a party card can't count against me when I make my trip to Cuba. I've already sent a letter to their government regarding said visit.

[Spoon Poetic]

I didn't mean living in America would mean you weren't a communist. I just meant that, I don't see what good the card would do you here. And I never said the card would count against you, I just don't see why one would need one at all. Why do they bother giving them out. Ya know? Maybe I'm just the oddball. *shrug*

[J m HofMarN]

Well there are registered democrats and registered republicans, greens, etc. You give party membership cards out so you'll know who's a member of your party.

[Jordan]

communist countries suck and people are always trying to leave them. Explain, and don't try tell me the US is responsible for the commies being bad.