PS. I've no idea why the quotes didn't appear correctly in this post.
Hey Infernus; relax, enjoy and keep it friendly. A lot of the banter here is tongue in cheek; don't take it too seriously. OP was expressing an opinion. He wasn't declaring it was an absolute. (We all know only Sith believe in absolutes. ;-) Never flame. Good never comes of a flame.
Helena, on May 26 2007, 09:24 PM, said:
OK, Infernus? Brief language tutorial here: When people say "Everyone hates X," they don't literally mean 'everyone in the whole world', but something like 'most people' or even just 'a lot of people'. It's a technique known as 'hyperbole' which is enormously common in English
Maybe Infernus isn't an English-as-a-first-language speaker? English is very prone to exaggeration, and that doesn't translate easily. Once told a Japanese friend "I hate that band", and she looked on with wide-eyed horror: "You... *hate*... them?" 8-O
Just your average movie goer, on May 25 2007, 10:19 PM, said:
The space battle is fun... but it lacks tension. There's no clock a-ticking here with this Death Star, and the main reactor is a pretty easy target when compared to that small thermal exhaust port.
And we all knew how it ended anyway. We did in Star Wars too, but someone in that dogfight Lucas managed to keep the tension high.
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The Empire was even considerate enough to make nice big shafts in the superstructure to accomodate the rebel fighters.
Makes me think what if, in James Cameron's "Aliens", they made the crawlspace just large enough for humans. Unfortunately the idiot architect made it large enough for an as yet undiscovered race of large predatory aliens.
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Jabba was just rubbish. Luke's plan where he gets everybody caught by Jabba before coming to save the day just made no sense at all.
Very good point. Why put yourself in the weakest position possible before striking back. Why not before he even knew you were there? Damn I'm glad you weren't giving a narrative for this movie when I first watched it! :-)
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"Meh, I've got a better idea. How about Jabba just lets it go and I don't drop a photon torpedo on his sand castle?"
Nukes are evil weapons that sci-fi tend to avoid: takes all the fun out of it. They would have fixed up Jabba quickly, not to mention those ATATs lumbering across the plains of Hoth.
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Also, Jabba's palace is almost entirely peopled by muppets.
Frank Oz must have been busy that day.
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In fact, I think that stupid little gremlin of his is a relative of Gonzo.
He was a rat who used to live in Darth Vader's Kitchen.
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Ah, the Endor scenes. Freakin' filler, the lot of them.
Stop, damn you! Stop! Yes, yes, you're right! Now whenever I watch ROTJ, I fast-forward through the Endor stuff. First time it's ok, but after that, yes, filler. Why do Ewoks have human size dresses and hair care products on hand for Leia anyway?
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I'm pretty sure how the planning for this film would have proceeded... ... "We still need more, George."
Very true, and this smacks of how Lucas plans... or doesn't. He just thinks up something, and goes with it, and his staff are only there to fawn over him and tell him how wonderful the plans are. He doesn't solicit third-party opinions. Well on the commentary he said he got Spielberg to go over the storyboards/early-story/not-clear(?) and make suggestions, but it's clear from the end result he didn't listen or Spielberg was just humoring him.
To be honest: Resorting to yet another Death Star was a lame move. Why not something new?
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There's the convenient wrapping up of plot threads. Yoda said there was another so Obi Wan comes along and tells Luke it's his sister. Luke's still in love with Leia so said sister becomes Leia.
In the MAD Magazine paradoy published when the movie came out, Chewbacca turned out to be Luke's old dog and R2 his old vacuum cleaner. Funny how none of the relatives even remotely looked like each other.
I think many of the flaws in ROTJ were noted at the time, which is why (I suspect too) for many it is the least famous OT (Original Trilogy) movie. Those damned Ewoks. The filler on Endor. Oh looky it's another Death star.
- Silliness in Jabba's palace.
Re-introducing Boba-Fett into the 'Special Edition' made me gag.
- Disturbing violence (still in Jabba's palace) when Jabba feeds a girl to a monster because she resisted his advances (sick, sick, sick... and seriously pushing that PG rating).
Come to think of it, was pretty gratuitous.
- The beginning of the Endor scenes, where it looks like a proper military operation. Compare that to everything else on Endor which is just silly slapstick humour with a bunch of teddy bears.
Worst moment of the film: Stormtroopers going down because Ewoks are throwing little rocks.
- The intrustion of said Endor scenes with the far more interesting things going on in space. Every time the film cuts to Endor, it kills the mood. Even as a child when I liked this film much more, I still remember being quite bored during the Endor scenes, waiting impatiently for "the good bit".
Like I said, I ffwd through the Endor stuff. Maybe we need another Phantom Edit.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - 'Star Wars' and 'The Empire Strikes Back' grow up with you. This film doesn't. Where its predecessors still amaze and inspire, this film looks more and more dated with each successive viewing.
Very true. The only fault in TESB was the timelines didn't match: Luke training on Dagobah for what seemed like months, with Han and co being on the Falcon for maybe a day? TESB is one of my favorites, and you can't take that away from him: Lawrence Kasdan is a genius.
Overall ROTJ didn't feel bad: There was enough SFX, big space battles and action to keep people entertained, and the Luke/Dad thing was cool too. But yeah: It could have been so much more.
And when you're in the big movie night mood, you can't go past 'The Empire Strikes Back'.
I have the music for all movies, and TESB is the one I listen too the most. The 14 minute score for the Battle of Hoth is brilliant. Starts out slow and pensive, and builds into a crescendo, ending with the 'Ok R2, we're going, we're going'. If you have the means, I highly recommend you listen to it.
So, when compared to that... how on earth are we supposed to get excited about 'Return of the Jedi'?
This reminds me of when I used to mark assignments in University. After seeing bad one like this, I might give it a 'C'. But then after what follows, you go back and mark it up to a 'B'. You know what I'm talking about... :-)
This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 27 May 2007 - 05:38 PM