ZP - Anti Homosexual Slurs Why the new trend on Zero Punctuation ? 03.04.2009
#46
Posted 11 March 2009 - 08:37 PM
Ok, Adam, I will try to do this for you, which is to repeat myself.
I am Irish. I may call an Irish friend "Paddy," whether his name is Patrick or not. If you are not Irish and you call me "Paddy," I will shoot out your kneecaps. Because the word references a very recent and in some places current period of discrimination and violence. It ios racist. Oddly, few notice this, and they like to call police vans "Paddy Wagons," referencing either the large number of Irish on Eastern police forces, or the stereotype that these vehicles were used to round up drunks, and etc.
Back to the other word. The word "nigger" has very strong racist overtones. It was used by white ment o keep black men down until well, it's still used that way. I am white, so I cannot say it without betraying racism. If I were black, I could use it to ironic effect. This matter has been discussed at length in other areas, and it is abundantly clear that the mainstream Black community of the United States agrees with this assessment.
So: If you are a member of a hated minority, and you have a word that is used by the majority to belittle or denigrate you, then you may use it all you like. Those others who use it to belittle or denigrate you do so at the riosk of being called racist. You will not be charged with this same act, since you are a member of the affected race. I am not necessarily describing the world as I would like it; this is the way it is. Now you may feel free to follow this up with descriptions of how you would like the world, and begin finger-pointing and PC witchhunts about who is being racist or homophobic on this web page or that, and I will continue not to call you an idealist, and I will not "pin that term on [you]" since I never brought it up, though you will continue to self-apply the term (while begging us to stop applying it to you), and you will declare that you are a persecuted optimist.
"Pessimism" and "optimism," by the way, generally refer to one's outlook on the future, on probable future scenarios. I have been talking about current use of racially charged language, so I don't think I can be described with either term. I have also entered, unchallenged, the notion that language is not neutral, that most words have several meanings, that context is everything. This applies to simple concepts as well as to these politically-charged ones. You will never be able to define neutral race words when we can't even render perfectly neutral and simply descriptive words to describe a table setting.
I am Irish. I may call an Irish friend "Paddy," whether his name is Patrick or not. If you are not Irish and you call me "Paddy," I will shoot out your kneecaps. Because the word references a very recent and in some places current period of discrimination and violence. It ios racist. Oddly, few notice this, and they like to call police vans "Paddy Wagons," referencing either the large number of Irish on Eastern police forces, or the stereotype that these vehicles were used to round up drunks, and etc.
Back to the other word. The word "nigger" has very strong racist overtones. It was used by white ment o keep black men down until well, it's still used that way. I am white, so I cannot say it without betraying racism. If I were black, I could use it to ironic effect. This matter has been discussed at length in other areas, and it is abundantly clear that the mainstream Black community of the United States agrees with this assessment.
So: If you are a member of a hated minority, and you have a word that is used by the majority to belittle or denigrate you, then you may use it all you like. Those others who use it to belittle or denigrate you do so at the riosk of being called racist. You will not be charged with this same act, since you are a member of the affected race. I am not necessarily describing the world as I would like it; this is the way it is. Now you may feel free to follow this up with descriptions of how you would like the world, and begin finger-pointing and PC witchhunts about who is being racist or homophobic on this web page or that, and I will continue not to call you an idealist, and I will not "pin that term on [you]" since I never brought it up, though you will continue to self-apply the term (while begging us to stop applying it to you), and you will declare that you are a persecuted optimist.
"Pessimism" and "optimism," by the way, generally refer to one's outlook on the future, on probable future scenarios. I have been talking about current use of racially charged language, so I don't think I can be described with either term. I have also entered, unchallenged, the notion that language is not neutral, that most words have several meanings, that context is everything. This applies to simple concepts as well as to these politically-charged ones. You will never be able to define neutral race words when we can't even render perfectly neutral and simply descriptive words to describe a table setting.
"I had a lot of different ideas. At one point, Luke, Leia and Ben were all going to be little people, and we did screen tests to see if we could do that." -George Lucas, in STAR WARS: the Annotated Screenplays (p197).
#49
Posted 12 March 2009 - 05:03 AM
I don't find anything offensive about "anti-homosexual" jokes or the pointing out of what seems like racism in many video games. The use of gay-bashing slurs is abundant whether you're actually saying anything about homosexuals or not and they're generally just jokes used for anything. Saying "this game is gay" doesn't mean this game is homoerotic, it means it sucks, but that doesn't mean it actually literally sucks, it means it's a pile of crap. And so on.
It's not like so-called anti-homosexual slurs are somehow making the world a worse place for homosexuals. If anything, the acceptance of homosexuals, although not 100% like it should be, is growing higher all the time, and the use of anti-homosexual slurs was probably a lot less frequent back when the Church went around torturing people until they were either heterosexual or dead.
It's not like so-called anti-homosexual slurs are somehow making the world a worse place for homosexuals. If anything, the acceptance of homosexuals, although not 100% like it should be, is growing higher all the time, and the use of anti-homosexual slurs was probably a lot less frequent back when the Church went around torturing people until they were either heterosexual or dead.
This post has been edited by Schnippshly: 12 March 2009 - 05:03 AM
#52
Posted 13 March 2009 - 08:43 AM
QUOTE (Schnippshly @ Mar 12 2009, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Saying "this game is gay" doesn't mean this game is homoerotic, it means it sucks, but that doesn't mean it actually literally sucks, it means it's a pile of crap. And so on.
It's not like so-called anti-homosexual slurs are somehow making the world a worse place for homosexuals.
It's not like so-called anti-homosexual slurs are somehow making the world a worse place for homosexuals.
Would you use "gay" as an insult in the company of gay people?
If a term has two meanings, one of which is to refer to a group of people (especially one that has been persecuted), and another is an insult, it's not doing the group of people any favours.
If you were to, say, go on failblog, find a picture of someone doing something really stupid, and add "OMG, that's so American" in the comments, you'll get quite a few angry responses.
#53
Posted 13 March 2009 - 12:48 PM
QUOTE (Thaluikhain @ Mar 13 2009, 03:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you were to, say, go on failblog, find a picture of someone doing something really stupid, and add "OMG, that's so American" in the comments, you'll get quite a few angry responses.
I did just that. For science.
#56
Posted 15 March 2009 - 05:45 PM
This thread is unneccesary.
STOP WHINING. Gay people can take care of themselves and don't need your help. If you call em' a fag, they'll call you a bitch. If you slap them, they'll bitch-slap you. If try to fuck em', they'll fuck you, in the shower.
If you're gay and think you've been mistreated, call 1-800-whny-bich.
STOP WHINING. Gay people can take care of themselves and don't need your help. If you call em' a fag, they'll call you a bitch. If you slap them, they'll bitch-slap you. If try to fuck em', they'll fuck you, in the shower.
If you're gay and think you've been mistreated, call 1-800-whny-bich.
#58
Posted 15 March 2009 - 07:03 PM
Try reading it as an acute accent, that usually helps keeping me from slamming my head against the desk when I read that stuff.
Quote
Pop quiz, hotshot. Garry Kasparov is coming to kill you, and the only way to change his mind is for you to beat him at chess. What do you do, what do you do?
#59
Posted 16 March 2009 - 12:22 AM
QUOTE (Schnippshly @ Mar 12 2009, 09:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't find anything offensive about "anti-homosexual" jokes or the pointing out of what seems like racism in many video games. The use of gay-bashing slurs is abundant whether you're actually saying anything about homosexuals or not and they're generally just jokes used for anything. Saying "this game is gay" doesn't mean this game is homoerotic, it means it sucks, but that doesn't mean it actually literally sucks, it means it's a pile of crap. And so on.
It's not like so-called anti-homosexual slurs are somehow making the world a worse place for homosexuals. If anything, the acceptance of homosexuals, although not 100% like it should be, is growing higher all the time, and the use of anti-homosexual slurs was probably a lot less frequent back when the Church went around torturing people until they were either heterosexual or dead.
It's not like so-called anti-homosexual slurs are somehow making the world a worse place for homosexuals. If anything, the acceptance of homosexuals, although not 100% like it should be, is growing higher all the time, and the use of anti-homosexual slurs was probably a lot less frequent back when the Church went around torturing people until they were either heterosexual or dead.
See now we got the Enclave into this. Great job faggots. Oh wait, I'm not allowed to say that right? ok, great job tilly willies
I pooped a hammer. I pooped a cornish game hen.
#60
Posted 16 March 2009 - 03:02 AM
QUOTE (Maggot4Life @ Mar 12 2009, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...See this is why I'm grey. I can say nigger, and cracker freely.
Yes I'm a natural blue.
QUOTE (Thaluikhain @ Mar 13 2009, 11:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If a term has two meanings, one of which is to refer to a group of people (especially one that has been persecuted), and another is an insult, it's not doing the group of people any favours.
Actually, the two meanings are happy and homosexual. I'm assuming homosexuals were called 'gay' because of the stereotypical way they supposedly behave (cheery, chirpy etc. Hence, gay).
I'm just going to point out that using something as an insult doesn't give it a third meaning which is offensive. Let me give you an example.
Thaluikhain, you're a gear box.
But a gear box wasn't an offensive term until I just used it then. Alternatively...
Thaluikhain, it's good to see someone who's a gear box.
And I'm rambling again...
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