[KurganX]

They DO have ways of locking up force powered individuals in the Star Wars universe (even without resorting to the EU). Take that blue energy stuff that holds Obi-Wan in AOTC. If you need to, post guards that are either Jedi, Droids, or simply strong willed individuals who can't be manipulated by mind tricks.

[jerfus17]

[quote name='Paladin' date='Sep 3 2004, 02:24 PM' post='24806']
"Just how he was a 'good friend, a great star pilot, and a cunning warrior' is beyond me."

Right on, and here is why he said it that way -

When I was kid back in the late 70's, I had a magazine on Star Wars that explained some of the original backstory for A New Hope, most likely written out by someone who can write - like Lawrence Kasdan who helped write the screen play for A New Hope, and wrote virtually all of Empire and Jedi.

In it, it said that Obi-wan and Anakin met when they were both adults - Anakin wasn't supposed to be a snotty little brat. Anakin was a great starfighter pilot already, along with his good friend Bail Organa. They were both Republic pilots fighting against the Mandalorian Clone onslaught. Even though Anakin was too old, Obi-wan began training him against the wishes of some other Jedi, but Obi-wan felt his potential. It went on to say something vague about after the Clone Wars and the devastation left by the Mandalorians, the Jedi's numbers were so diminished and public trust in them had waned so much that Palpatine found it easy to take over the Senate. He then seduced Anakin to the dark side and turned him against Obi-wan. I think it said something about Palpatine making Anakin believe that his wife (who wasn't named Amidala, and wasn't a queen) was cheating on him with Obi-wan or something. After Obi-wan and Anakin fought (at the edge of a volcano, not some lava planet), Obi-wan took baby Luke to Tatooine, and Anakin's wife took young Leia to live on Alderaan. She died when Leia was very young and the Organa's adopted Leia (hence why Leia remembers her mother in RTOJ and has the title of princess because of the Organa's royal Alderanian bloodline).

So sorry about the tangent, back to the point - the reason Obi-wan spoke those lines in A New Hope is because they were basing the character off of the story I described above, or something close to it at least. I wish I could find that damn magazine that had that story, but I'm sure Lucas has erased all traces of it by now. Anyway, that's a brief outline of the story I grew up with about how events prior to A New Hope had unfolded - so you can imagine my disgust at the way the pre-quels turned out.

[KurganX]

It almost sounds too good to be true (and the Lucas gushers would never believe it unless you showed them a scan), but then there was that 1980 magazine that said Stormtroopers were clones, so anything is possible!

Was he really being called Anakin back in the 70's? I realize "Annikin" was around back then as an alternate name for Luke, but for Luke's father? Or are you just mentally assigning the name to the character since we all "know it now"?

[jerfus17]

It almost sounds too good to be true (and the Lucas gushers would never believe it unless you showed them a scan), but then there was that 1980 magazine that said Stormtroopers were clones, so anything is possible!

Was he really being called Anakin back in the 70's? I realize "Annikin" was around back then as an alternate name for Luke, but for Luke's father? Or are you just mentally assigning the name to the character since we all "know it now"?

No, the name of Luke's father was always Anakin that I know of. I read the article after A New Hope came out, so they had to call him Anakin by that point since they refered to him as such in the film. As far as before A New Hope was released I don't know.

Yeah, I know the Lucas fanatics would never believe it, but that's the story I read and remember. I never heard anything about the stormies being clones until Ep2 came out. There was never any mention of them being clones in the OT (you think that would have been a major plot point if so, or at least mentioned). I heard rumors at the time that Obi-wan may be a clone (designation # OB-1), but never the stormtroopers - they were just the standard shock troops of the Old Repbulic now gone Empire.

The tale I always heard was that the Mandalorians were the clones fighting against the Republic - and that's also why Boba Fett was once cool (notice I said "once"), because no one knew if he was an actual Mandalorian Clone or simply a dude wearing the armor just for intimidation. Then Lucas had to go and make Fett some whiney clone kid of another guy named Fett and make up some story about the Mandalorian Wars being a separate incident that happened 400 years before the Clone Wars or some bull. Anything to try and convince people he had it all planned this way from the beginning - but based on all the other plot holes we've seen I think everyone knows that isn't the case whether the story I remember was the original prequel tale or not.

This post has been edited by jerfus17: 09 May 2007 - 04:05 PM

[jerfus17]

It almost sounds too good to be true

One more thing ... I found some interesting text here from The Star Wars Soucebook published in 1987 by West End Games , Inc. and approved by Lucasfilm Ltd. It's not nearly as in depth as the back story I read long ago, but it makes a few references that seem to correspond some what. Take from them what you will of course. Some are vague, but a few have to make you wonder. Check it out -

On Obi-Wan Kenobi -

" ... most of the information about Obi-Wan Kenobi was gleaned through interviews with Bail Organa, Kenobi's friend and fellow soldier in the Clone Wars."

"Little is known about his teacher, except that he had trained Jedi for literally hundreds of years."

"He fought beside such heroes as Bail Organa of Alderaan and his good friend Anakin Skywalker, ..."

On Yoda -

"If the Emperor ever knew of Yoda's existence, he has forgotten it or assumed that the ancient master is no more. Darth Vader knows even less of Yoda, as Obi-Wan initiated the Dark Lord's training without aid from his old master."

"While Yoda has appeared to do nothing as the Old Republic surrendered to the New Order, he has in fact, not been idle. Studying the galaxy from his fog-shrouded home ..."

On Boba Fett -

"He wears a weapon-covered, armored spacesuit similar to those favored by a group of warriors (from the Mandalore system) defeated by the Jedi Knights during the Clone Wars. It is unknown if he was actually a member of that group, or if he is simply making use of their equipment

On Darth Vader -

"Author's Note: The following information was compiled from conversations with Luke Skywalker, former student of Obi-Wan Kenobi, and from interviews with Bail Organa, Vader's contemporary and fellow warrior in the Clone Wars, several weeks before Organa's death in the cataclysm of Alderaan."

- I'll see what else I can dig up, but it may take awhile to find.

This post has been edited by jerfus17: 09 May 2007 - 05:15 PM

[Despondent]

Do please scan this info. Including the trademark.

[jerfus17]

Do please scan this info. Including the trademark.

Will do ... but you might have to walk me through how to post it, I've never done it before.

Also, I checked out Amazon.com and the book is still in print, though it has probably been modified significantly by Lucas and his evil minions. Mine is the original 1987 print though. I also found two others I own from about the same time called The Imperial Soucebook, and The Rebel Alliance Sourcebook - I'll comb through those too and see if I can't find anything else interesting.

I will try to scan the pages and trademark in the next few days.

This post has been edited by jerfus17: 10 May 2007 - 03:48 PM

[TruJade]

Ummm lets just say
that Obi Wan tried his best
with what he had
He gave Anakin every advantage

and like more than a second and third chances
Anakin, love sick power hungary fool
that he is couldn't resist the darkside
Oh well tomorrows another day

But Wait!
Now he's the Dark Lords apprentice
uh oh this is bad news for the jedi
and who has all the blame thrust upon him?

None other then good ol'Obi who might i
remind you as it was pointed out earlier
never quite finished his training
Ho hum isn't that convenient for everyone else

I think you get the point

[jerfus17]

Hey all ... here are the scans of the pages those quotes came from. Sorry for the delay, but with some help from Despondent I managed to get them up in case you want to read more. Enjoy.

This post has been edited by Despondent: 22 May 2007 - 08:35 AM

[Despondent]

[Infernus]

Yeh I remember that book! A lot of the that info has since been contradicted or otherwise toyed with in the new movies. Shame, really.

[georgelucas4greedo]

That book is awesome. I love how even it, if you read closely, refuses to reveal that Darth Vader is Aniken Skywalker and even does not reveal that it was Yoda who trained Obi Wan. It made me wonder when the book was published until I saw Yoda in the next page.
Anyway, it takes me back to those wonderful days in between ESB and ROTJ where everything was so mysterious. Where any turn in the adventure was possible. Its just so frustrating to see it end up like this, to have me writing in this forum day in and day out about how much I cannot stand the new movies. Maybe I am dwelling too much on a childhood passion of mine or maybe I did not want to see a masterpiece go down in flames. The problem is, unlike the aging classic rock god's final studio album, this failure, this downward spiral into irrelevance and mediocrity was not inevitable.

[xenduck]

see. this is why im soooo fascinated with this board. i mean, star wars was my babysitter, ya know? i think i've got a pretty good idea of what does and doesnt happen, and i have spent COUNTLESS hours reviewing it all in my head. yet, i come here and see things i would have never thought of. take chef elf's first post: "yet the prequels show that Obi-Wan's training was perfectly fine".

uh, ok. not really. did you miss all the scenes with anakin talking? oh wait, everything anakin said MUST have been juvinelle BS. strange that what obi wan says in EP III "i have failed you" and later "i was wrong" and vader's "now his failure is complete" fits PERFECTLY with what anakin was saying all along.

now, helena, dont go thinking im blamming obi-wan (not more than he blames himself, anyway) all im saying is obi-wan was as much too young to train ani as ani was too old to be trained. probably a mistake on the council's part but the balance of the force was at stake and how much damage could one jedi do, eh? we all make mistakes, like jar jar giving palpatine emergency powers. its an example of how little, seemingly insignificant, problems (like no life boats) add up when a powerful foe emerges (iceburg).

and btw, even in EP IV it is clear obi-wan is much vader's senior, and therefore its unlikely they met as adult jedi. "you should not have come back, old man." and "He must be dead by now." but while they do have a father son relationship in EPII, by EPIII they are "brothers". and in the clone wars anakin becomes a better jedi (mentally) because now he has an outlet for his abilities other than sand people. you'll notice anakin doesnt kill palpatine out right upon learning he is a sith, JUST LIKE luke doesnt kill him out right on the deathstar.

thats all ill say for now. but, whether it hurts or helps your reputation, jariten, i agree with you completely! keep it up

[Toru-chan]

Mein Gott! Das ist brilliant ja?

I hadn't seen this thread before but wow... you've turned up pure gold there. Because this is official Lucasfilm merchandise released during the Star Wars craze, they don't have the plausible deniability that it was some unauthorized fan production that someone made up. It's always been my dream (since I thought of it three minutes ago :-) to do a site debunking Grand Canon. That draws closer.

And somewhere as we speak, huddled in a bed in Northern California, George Lucas has just woken up with a start. He had a bad dream. A bad dream that maybe, just maybe, his minions didn't get every last copy of the Star Wars Sourcebook (cue Maniacal laughter... fade to black)

This post has been edited by Toru-chan: 14 July 2007 - 07:01 AM

[jerfus17]

[and btw, even in EP IV it is clear obi-wan is much vader's senior, and therefore its unlikely they met as adult jedi. "you should not have come back, old man." and "He must be dead by now." but while they do have a father son relationship in EPII, by EPIII they are "brothers". and in the clone wars anakin becomes a better jedi (mentally) because now he has an outlet for his abilities other than sand people. you'll notice anakin doesnt kill palpatine out right upon learning he is a sith, JUST LIKE luke doesnt kill him out right on the deathstar.]

Nobody ever said that Obi-Wan wasn't Vader's senior, obviously he is - I just said that when they met in the orginal story that they were both adults - like Anakin was 18 and Obi was 25, etc. Anakin wasn't suppossed to be some snotty, 8-year old brat that talks about space angels and has the time to build C-3PO and fly pod-racers around while still working as a slave (yippeeee!) Everyone knows Lucas just did that crap to please his son (who was also 8 at the time) and try to market it more to young children so he could sell more toys. And the "your powers are weak old man" reference was simply made because Obi-Wan is now, in that scene, and old man. Darth is pretty damn old himself. But, Obi-Wan is still older and therefore slightly weaker than Vader, so Vader is simply taunting him by saying it.

This post has been edited by jerfus17: 14 July 2007 - 11:24 AM