[J m HofMarN]

Forgiving the allusion to America's system of government let me ask another question that is begged by Amidala's soliloque.

"After two trials in the supreme court Nute Gun Rey is still viceroy of the trade federation."

HOW?

How the fuck?

He invaded Naboo and killed hundreds of people, he failed to kill Jar Jar, he was involved with the Sith, he probably did something illegal involving the taxation of trade routes.

Need evidence? A dead Sith, a dead jedi, the overthrow of chancelor Valorem, a bunch of broken down battle droids and a ton of dead gungans.

What in the hell was his argument in the trial? "Ummm they had weapons of mass destruction."? If Nute Gun Rey got away with the whole thing (and don;t let this make you think I have any sympathy for Naboo because they deserved it) then the old republic deserved to fall for having such a flawed justice system! Maybe I'm wrong, maybe the dark side clouded the judgement of all nine of their supreme court justices, twice. Damn but Palpatine was a busy man.

[Helena]

What in the hell was his argument in the trial? "Ummm they had weapons of mass destruction."?

Well, it worked for Bush...

Seriously, I've given up trying to make any sense of the political aspects of the PT. Every time I think about it I end up wanting to kill someone. One more thing though: it would appear that the 'double jeopardy' rule (you can't be tried twice for the same crime) doesn't apply in the Republic. Strange, since just about every other aspect of their political system seems to be modelled on the US constitution...

[barend]

It's because the Naboo senate had wasted the treasury on Amidalas wardrobe, they could only afford a Lional Hutz type lawyer.

[J m HofMarN]

Even with a Lionel Hutz lawyer and medical testimony from DR. Nick Riviera I still think they could have gotten him. And I forgot to mention that he fugging tried to kill a jedi knight and a padawan for no reason. Did not Obi Wan Kenobi have something to say like "You tried to gas me and then sent droids to shoot me." There is positively no way he could have gotten off. The only way I will accept this is if George Bush wins a second term. Then it will have some kind of basis in reality.

[J m HofMarN]

Helena- You're right, but he wasn't necessarily tried twice for the same crime. Maybe the first trial was for horrible genocide against Gungans. The mistake of the prosecution was to call Jar Jar Binks as a witness. The jury then decided to give Nute Gun Rey a medal.

The next trial could have been for, say, trade route taxation avoidance and seperatist ideals. This trial resulted in a mistrial as about halfway through it all of the jurors heads exploded. So maybe that's another scenario.

[Helena]

Helena- You're right, but he wasn't necessarily tried twice for the same crime. Maybe the first trial was for horrible genocide against Gungans. The mistake of the prosecution was to call Jar Jar Binks as a witness. The jury then decided to give Nute Gun Rey a medal.

The next trial could have been for, say, trade route taxation  avoidance and seperatist ideals. This trial resulted in a mistrial as about halfway through it all of the jurors heads exploded. So maybe that's another scenario.

Yeah, I guess you have a point there.

I know what you mean, and gushers would say how it is "intricate" and "brilliant."

It makes absolutely NO sense! Lucas just did not let someone go through the script with a better sensibility.

It is just so FREEGIN' FRUSTRATING!!! GAWDS, I could write better than that deluded fat--b!

The sad thing is that his basic premise - Palpatine foments a civil war in the Republic in order to manoeuvre himself into power - is actually quite good. If only he'd handled it properly. For instance, instead of 'Turmoil has engulfed the Galactic Republic. The taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems is in dispute...', consider this:

'Turmoil has engulfed the Galactic Republic. A fanatical seperatist group known as "Illthinkofsomethinglater" is spreading havoc across the galaxy, attacking civilians and assassinating prominent political figures. Their sudden and unexpected rise to prominence has taken the Republic's leaders by surprise, and even the Jedi are baffled as to how they are acquiring their information and resources.

Furious at the Republic's inability to prevent the attacks, many senators and ordinary citizens are calling for more drastic measures. A group of senior politicians, led by Senator Palpatine of Alderaan, has proposed military action against systems suspected of aiding the seperatists. Fearing that such a move would lead to civil war, the Jedi have launched a major investigation to determine who is controlling the terrorists...'

Then all you have to do is think up something for the group to be 'fanatical' about and a reason for them to dislike the Republic, which shouldn't be too difficult. In fact they are of course being controlled by Palpatine/Sidious, who wants to make the Republic (and the current Chancellor) look weak. He helps them develop a 'clone army' which will fight against the Republic when the war breaks out. Once he discredits the current Chancellor (perhaps even framing him for being in league with the seperatists) and takes his place, he will turn against the seperatists and appropriate the clone army for himself - once a good proportion of the Jedi and the Republic's military has been destroyed, of course. After the war, riding high on a wave of popular support, he will begin to implement draconian security measures which will gradually turn the Republic into the Empire.

I came up with that concept in about five minutes, and it would need some refining, but it would work. It would get rid of the need for discussions about taxes, trade and boring stuff like that, and provide a much better reason for the galaxy to be 'in turmoil' than a trade blockade of some stupid little planet.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

"After two trials in the supreme court Nute Gun Rey is still viceroy of the trade federation."

HOW?

How the fuck?

Actualy that might be the most realistic aspect of the whole movie. Scarily, very true to life


I don't know why so many people have this fascination wwith explaining the political aspects of the Star Wars universe, especially when you consider that the OT films NEVER went in depth with the politics.

The only film that ever mentions the political makeup of the Star Wars universe is the original Star Wars. It is NEVER mentioned in Empire or ROTJ


Three scenes in the OT.

1. Leia is captured and is accused by Vader of not being on a mercy mission.

2. The Imperial governors talk about the disslution of the Imperial Senate and how the Death Star will affect the balance of power in the galaxy

3. The emperor is shown in Empire and ROTJ and depicted as being the sole authority in the Imperial Empire.


That's it, for the politics!!! So why do people like Lucas have this undying need to explain the political backdrop behind Star Wars?? We only need a glimpse of the politics in Star Wars. There are far more important things to explain in the PTs, like why did Anakin really turn over to the darkside? We need a detailed depiction of that, not the brief, whiny bitch-fests that Hayden Christanson spews out in ATOC?

[Helena]

I agree that the OT films were better off for leaving out politics, but the trouble is that you CAN'T do that with the prequels. At the very least you need to explain how the Republic fell, how Palpatine became Emperor and why the Jedi were unable to prevent it. Yes, explaining how Anakin went to the Dark Side is very important, but you can't just have him and Palpy walk in and announce "Hey there, we're taking over the Republic." If Lucas didn't want to bother coming up with a plausible explanation of this, he shouldn't have made the prequels in the first place.

[Mike Mac from NYU]

I agree that the OT films were better off for leaving out politics, but the trouble is that you CAN'T do that with the prequels. At the very least you need to explain how the Republic fell, how Palpatine became Emperor and why the Jedi were unable to prevent it. Yes,"

How the Republic fell is something that doesn't need to be directly and fully explained. You could do alot with the power insinuation and assumption.

For ex. I f Palpatine is made chancellor, you could easiy make the assumption that he eventually became emperor with going into long detail about how he did it.

How Palpatine became the Emperor and why the jedi were unable to stop him are directly related and only need be related to the ultimate story of Anakin Skywalker's downfall.

Because the Palpatine wanted to assume power and defeat the Jedi, he took on and corrupted the young Anakin.

Ultimatley, the PT movies should have been about one thing alone

-The story of Anakin Skywalker"

just as the OT films are ultimately about

-Luke Skywalkers ascendency to a Jedi-

[Helena]

I agree that the OT films were better off for leaving out politics, but the trouble is that you CAN'T do that with the prequels. At the very least you need to explain how the Republic fell, how Palpatine became Emperor and why the Jedi were unable to prevent it. Yes,"

How the Republic fell is something that doesn't need to be directly and fully explained. You could do alot with the power insinuation and assumption.

For ex. I f Palpatine is made chancellor, you could easiy make the assumption that he eventually became emperor with going into long detail about how he did it.

I have to disagree with you here, Mike. How could you 'just assume' that he became Emperor? If I left the UK for a few years and came back to find that Tony Blair had set himself up as Emperor (actually, a possibility that seems increasingly likely ), I think I would want to know what had happened!

Besides, doing it that way would mean you had to leave the Empire's rise out of the trilogy, which would just be the biggest cop-out ever. We need to see the thing the Rebels in the OT are fighting against, otherwise half the point of the prequels is gone - not to mention how confusing it would be for people watching the movies in order, when the Empire suddenly appeared in Ep IV. I agree that Anakin's fall is one of the most important aspects of the PT, but by itself it isn't enough, at least not for me.

[Despondent]

I'm not sure if people WANT to pay attention.

In Ep. 4, what I still refer to as Star Wars, Luke wants to go to the academy. WHAT academy? the empire? Space Academy? Jason of Star Command? does anyone care here?

Biggs went to the academy, and turned to join the rebellion, I believe. So when Luke sees Biggs before the big battle, ought not there have been some shock of sorts that they both ended up fighting FOR THE OTHER SIDE?

of course the Biggs scenes never really made the film. Or did Biggs tell Luke he was going to switch?

My point is, I consider myself an old school fan but EVEN I'M fuzzy on the details. I won't even pretend I can recite what boring specifics occur in the PT.

Just let me feel I'm rooting for the good (light, dark- whatver. btw, why don't sith use darksabers?) and show me some realistic space fantasy. that's all I care about.

[Helena]

I think there was a scene explaining about Biggs and the rebellion, but it wasn't included in the final version of the film. But in any case those are minor details, whereas the things we're talking about in the PT are pretty fundamental.

I actually find the political side of the PT quite interesting - but then of course, politics has been one of my main interests since I was about 12 years old. Even so, I think the political aspects could be made acceptable to a general audience as long as they formed the background to the story of Anakin, Obi-Wan and Padme.

Incidentally, I checked and it's four trials in the Supreme Court, not two. Forget Lionel Hutz - I think Naboo must have hired Ralph Wiggum as a lawyer. Or possiby Jar Jar Binks (well, they did make him a General).

[Mike Mac from NYU]

In Ep. 4, what I still refer to as Star Wars, Luke wants to go to the academy. WHAT academy? the empire? Space Academy? Jason of Star Command? does anyone care here?

Yup. Luke was all set to join the good old Imperial Naval Academy to learn to fly a tie- fighter and fate the great battle against chaos in the universe. Nice touch that goes unnoticed in Star Wars: A New Hope

It is insinuated that Biggs went to the Imperial Academy and then defected to the rebels.

I mean think about guys..... There wouldn't be a Rebellion Academy since it would have to be a secret, otherwise the Imperials would destroy it. Luke is obviously going to be a military pilot and not a commercial pilot. I also doubt the Imperials would allow another military prescence to exist in the galaxy. Logically the only military academy Luke would be going to would be the Imperials.


The only thing that goes against this logic is

Luke says to Obi-Wan that he hates the empire, in ANH. I explain that byu saying that Luke simply wanted to be a fighter pilot and the Imperials were the best place for him to get of Tatooine.

[Just your average movie goer]

Imperial at this stage didn't automatically equate to the evil of the Empire. Remember, they still had the Imperial Senate until shortly before one of the Death Star scenes.

And regarding politics in the prequels, Mike (surprise, surprise), I'm going to have to take Helena's side on the issue.

Anyway, keep going. It's fun to read.