[Just your average movie goer]

DISCLAIMER:

I mean no offence to good people who are Christians. There are many good people who adopt the Christian faith.

If they have thought about it seriously beforehand and believe it is the best thing for them, then that is fine... as long as they respect the right of other people to believe differently if they should so desire.

My only quarrel is with religious people who because of their vindictions, choose to hurt other people - by telling them how to run their lives, by waging war on them, by killing them in the name of their God, etcetera.

If you're a Christian and a good person who enjoys life, is kind to other people and doesn't belittle non-Christians in any way, then God bless you.

[Just your average movie goer]

So much for not getting into a heavy discussion....

- a very tired Movie Goer, signing off.....

[Vwing]

Yeah, personally, though I am Jewish and very much admire much of Jewish heritage and culture, I think the religion aspect is a bunch of bull. But yeah, this thread wasn't made to argue that, it was made, as you said, to show the stupidity of people who thought that this movie by Mel Gibson was going to make a worldwide change. That's almost as ridiculous as those who feel gay marriage will be the downfall of society. Almost.

[Esco]

JYAMG,

I know that I havent been on this forum long, but i believe out of everyone I've talked to, I seem to discuss more with you. And since you spoke out your feelings and heart on this subject, I'll share mine also. I dont want to be responsible for turning this subject into a religious topic either, but I feel obligated to share.

So anyways, I can definitely relate to JYAMG's feelings on the subject of Christianity. I to have heard and read of all the atrocities done in the name of Christ, and it bothers me deeply. I know many sects and cults have risen up in that name also.
I will also come right out and say that I dont consider myself a generic "Christian",
but rather a follower of Jesus and his Word.
I DONT consider myself just another follower, nor another sheep following the rest of the flock.
I came to a crossroads in my life, after thoroughly examining my life and the meaninglessness of it. I would say to myself, "WHATS THE POINT". It all seemed in vain! You work, you enjoy the fruit of you labor, then REPEAT. If thats all you have going for you, it gets pointless!

I struggled with this, until I came to the knowledge of Jesus and all he claimed to be. And that when I put my trust in HIM(not some religious organization), and things changed for the better. In my mind and heart I received reason, and hope for the future.

JYAMG, I'm not at all offended by your comments, and I believe you are a man
of knowlege and logic. I commend you for thinking like that. When I came to believe in Jesus, I didnt throw any of that out the window. In fact, I embraced it. Jesus' whole life and death are both factually provable, and I'm talking secular history. So to believe in Jesus isnt outlandish, regardless of whether you believe he is who he claimed to be.
Just as there is evidences to his life, there are evidences for his claims. But I will leave that for another forum, since I dont want to get to detailed in here.

Also, I do agree with you on the whole contraceptives issue. There isnt anywhere in the Bible that supports that. You also pointed out alot of issue discrediting the Bible and Jesus that I'd like to give my input on, but I wont go there and I will refrain unless you really care to hear my opinion.
see ya,
Esco

[Vwing]

Listen, if you don't go around trying to convert other people and use religion for your own personal benefit, then all the more power to you. But as JYAMG says, religion has caused so much war, bigotry, prejudice because of the way people use it that it is hard for me to think of it as doing more good than bad in the world. Used personally, I think religion is fine, but when applied to the world (and when Bush applies it to his policies) I think it can really do no good.

One thing I always love about the Pope. He's supposed to be chosen by God, and yet he's actually elected by cardinals and priests. WHAT? And don't tell me that he is chosen by God because God influences the cardinals to make their decisions, because that's really stretching it. He's just another man, he doesn't know more or less about religion, god, and the world than anyone else, why do people follow HIM blindly? Not to mention the fact about how he "follows" Jesus's principles, and yet lives more like a king than a helper of people. I love that old joke, where the Pope says that he will try to do more for the poor, and one person in the crowd yells "SELL THE HAT!"

[Jordan]

JYAMG- Islam is not like christianity, and they don't worship the same God.

[Heccubus]

Yo guys, I wasn't trying to start a debate about the Passion here (if you want to get into one fine), I wasn't even criticizing the Passion here, and I think a lot of you overreacted to what I said.  I'm more criticizing the American public here.

I'm sure you weren't, but if you mention any sort of religious themes on this message board, people go nuts and start a long-running debate that goes on for weeks at a time.

[Jordan]

i wouldn't debate. mainly cause I'm unable too. My stupidity makes me look, well.....stupid.

I lose most debates I'm in.

[Just your average movie goer]

To Esco,

Thanks for the feedback. You know, I am very happy for you because of your decision to follow Jesus and you would never get any criticism from me for that choice - because you thought about it beforehand and you're not forcing it on other people.

But also, if it has genuinely improved the quality of your life, then I say that's fantastic. If it's working for you, then it's a very good choice.

And even for people like myself, there's a lot we can learn from Jesus. I don't believe he is who people claim he is... but I know he existed and a lot of his teachings are very relevant to the world today.

And Vwing, you were right on when you said -

Used personally, I think religion is fine, but when applied to the world (and when Bush applies it to his policies) I think it can really do no good.

That is absolutely true. Religion and politics should never mix.

Thank you again everyone for the good feedback.

[Jordan]

"I never lost control, you're face to face with the man who sold the world"


Its seems fad to quote Nirvana lately

This post has been edited by Jordan: 14 May 2004 - 11:32 PM

[Vwing]

Um Jordan? I think maybe you missed the discussion, no one ever said anything remotely resembling the things you said. Read the stuff again, we're saying religion is fine for personal use by good Christians or Jews or whatever, we didn't say anything about every Christian being a right-wing Bush-lover Pope-worshiper who defends the priests at all costs. I have no idea where you got that from.

[Jordan]

Probably nowhere, I just saw the words scattered about and thought I would write about it.

I'll erase it.

  If you're a Christian and a good person who enjoys life, is kind to other people and doesn't belittle non-Christians in any way, then God bless you. 

Actually, Christians belittling other Christians is more common, JYAMG. The division in the church is huge. That is THE MAIN reason why I don't attend church, and why I don't hold to any denomonation. One day I will, but I 'm gonna be very selective when I do.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 14 May 2004 - 09:13 PM

[Despondent]

"I never lost control, you're face to face with the man who sold the world"


Its seems fade to quote Nirvana lately

Actually, that was David Bowie.

(quietly in haste, exits the debate.)

[Jordan]

I know, I didn't like his version as much as Cobain's

[Just your average movie goer]

You probably heard the Nirvana version first. I generally prefer the versions of songs I hear first as well.

That may be the reason why I think Robert Plant and Jimmy Page's live version of Kashmir with the Egyptian orchestra on their CD No Quarter is so much better than the album version they made as Led Zeppelin.

Although the real reason is probably because it is much better.