Unearthing the fossil... What do we know about the backstory?
#16
Posted 07 September 2004 - 11:42 PM
also, i have to point out that while i was reading the original post by JYAMG, that yoda's dialogue was great...
"If you end your training now. If you choose the quick and easy path, as Vader did, you will become an agent of evil."
good stuff. it's too bad yoda says EVERYTHING backwards in the PT's... WHY IS THAT? it is sooo freagin annoying... it's like lucas has created a CHARICATURE of all the original players...
kill me, you must.
#17
Posted 08 September 2004 - 12:13 AM
Around the survivors, a perimeter create.
In this one, Yoda is not only reversing the two clauses that construct his sentence, but he's split one of the clauses into two sub-clauses and swapped them around too... and all of this when he's supposed to be giving a direct command to some soldiers.
You're right, Little Jerry Seinfeld. It is almost as if Lucas is using the new Yoda as a parody for the old one.
#18
Posted 08 September 2004 - 01:57 AM
oh, lucas... you sloppy bastard.
"aren't you a little short to be a storm trooper?"
"uh, yeah - they're all the same size and weight!"
"hey, you don't have a kiwi accent!"
"yeah, because i'm luke skywalker, and i'm here to rescue you!"
#19
Posted 08 September 2004 - 04:54 AM
This post has been edited by jariten: 08 September 2004 - 04:55 AM
#20
Posted 17 October 2004 - 12:58 AM
---
LUKE (talking about Artoo): He says he's the property of an "Obi-Wan Kenobi". I thought he maybe meant old Ben....Do you know what he's talking about?
OWEN: Hm.
LUKE: Maybe he's related to Ben.
OWEN (oddly animated now): That wizard's just a crazy old man!
---
That Owen reacts indifferently to Luke's first mention of Ben Kenobi but reacts strongly when Luke speculates about Ben's family ties is, I suggest, circumstantial evidence that Owen and Obi-Wan really were meant to be related. (Surely I can't be the only one who's picked up on this.)
I daresay that the lack of "third-party involvement" you observe in Obi-Wan's training of Anakin is correct and militates against the existence of a big "Jedi Academy" or whatever we're supposed to be seeing in the prequels. It is possible, I suggest, for the Jedi to be considered a unit without their actually needing to be centrally organized. As a real-life example I point to neo-paganism; neo-pagans identify themselves with some sort of common identity even though there is no central authority; the passing-down of neo-pagan "tradition" (well, tradition since 1970, but I'm not getting into that here) is mostly an individual affair, yet a kind of unity is maintained. (I'm phrasing this very badly. I spent most of the day helping out on a landscaping job and I'm tired, aching, and tipsy.) Having had some indirect experience of the neo-pagan community in Seattle, the notion of Obi-Wan's taking upon himself the education of a potentially brilliant student does not seem strange to me.
#21
Posted 17 October 2004 - 10:33 AM
JYAMG. (I must say that I'm a bit uncomfortable referring to someone by an abbreviation.)
Ah, just call me Movie Goer then. I included the "Just Your Average..." part when I signed up because I liked the anonymity of the name. But I guess it's not that anonymous. (Is my spelling correct there? My grasp of my own language is getting a bit rusty from living away from home for so long).
OWEN: Hm.
LUKE: Maybe he's related to Ben.
OWEN (oddly animated now): That wizard's just a crazy old man!
---
That Owen reacts indifferently to Luke's first mention of Ben Kenobi but reacts strongly when Luke speculates about Ben's family ties is, I suggest, circumstantial evidence that Owen and Obi-Wan really were meant to be related. (Surely I can't be the only one who's picked up on this.)
You're definitely not alone there... and I'm glad you remembered that scene. It's definitely another piece of the puzzle - and I think I forgot to mention it in my initial list.
(sigh) I really wish George took the time to watch his own movies and take down a few notes before he started writing the new ones.
I'm also glad I'm not the only one who hates this notion we get in the prequels of this Jedi academy and a council of Jedi, who live on Coruscant of all places. It just doesn't flow well with what we see in the original movies...
old Jedi Masters, living as hermits, passing on their knowledge to a single apprentice at a time... and apprentice, not padawan.
#22
Posted 17 October 2004 - 01:01 PM
I fugure the average Jedi lived like the travelling warriors of CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON. Lots of people knew them, and they helped folks out from time to time, even assisting in wars where needed. But yeah, not in a city and certainly not having some central authority. That's dumb.
#23
Posted 17 October 2004 - 04:10 PM
That's how we all saw them. As rogue-Monk warriors. It's not going to be saddening to see the council get nerfed in REVENGE OF SITH. I hated them from the get go.
#24
Posted 17 October 2004 - 05:18 PM
As for Jyamg's list, it is complete, but doesn't need to be read word for word. Obviously the Clone wars have turned into wars about clones, but when I first heard that back in 77, I thought differently. With Tractor Beam, being short for Attractor Beam, Droids being short for Androids, I just assumed Clone War was short for Cyclone war or something, but nothing to do with clones. But some kind of screwed up war where nobody wanted to really admit they were in it.
As for General Kenobi, Hell everybody is a general these days, even Solo. Somebody might say "General Solo, years ago you served my father on the ice planet Hoth" and it wouldn't be literally true, but it wouldn't be wrong either and he'd know what you were talking about. It doesn't imply anything deeper, it's just an introduction. And if Yoda is the Boss Jedi, then all the students at the jedi school could be "his"students, just like "Bruce Lee's students", or the "one armed boxer's students", (if you watch those old Hong Kong movies).
And if the Clone wars was some kind of Vietnam war, maybe Uncle Owen didn't know much about Ben the Hermit, but he knew enough to know that he was some kind of bad news. That wizard's just a crazy old man, he fought in that war that screwed everthing up (or so the news spin goes), and I don't know or want to know... Obi Wan gives Luke the light saber and slowly introduces the ideas of Jedis to him, and galaxy history. Knowing how much people don't like hearing about it, has to take is very easy and not say "everything you know is wrong, your dad is the current leader of evil, he killed all the other jedis 25 years ago, and that chick on the hologram is your sister. Wanna go with me sort some things out?"
But as for me, I never regarded anything other than "Star Wars" as being legit anyway. And isn't there somebody out there with skills who could make a DVD of the original original and spread the truth for a small anonymous donation???
#25
Posted 17 October 2004 - 07:13 PM
#26
Posted 17 October 2004 - 10:49 PM
civilian_number_two, were you the person who'd emailed me about my reasons to say that the Jedi should be on a planet teeming with life? That email always stuck out in my mind because it is such a good point. In Knights of the Old Republic they had the good sense to have the Jedi on Dantooine which was a planet with grassy fields, blue skies, abundant wildlife and flowing streams. It created a much more appropriate setting for the Jedi than Coruscant.
Also, the Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon reference is a good one. Or like any Samurai movie, really. There could have been plenty of Jedi wandering the galaxy. Some good, some bad, some mercenaries. It would have made a lot more sense that way since that's what would actually happen and did happen in feudal Japan with the Samurai.
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#27
Posted 18 October 2004 - 12:11 AM
I will post my second-ever thread soon, about how we all came to this place. In the interest of nostalgia, you know (don't start up now; wait for the topic).
#28
Posted 19 October 2004 - 03:51 AM
Had Lucas paid attention to the original movies, not only would the prequels be consistent with these films... but I think it would also be relatively easy to make something worthwhile out of the back story that these movies gave to us.
#29
Posted 19 October 2004 - 08:14 AM
I just don't understand how he "didn't pay attention" as you put it. How could he not? Did it not occur to him that the movies should tie together? They have people on movie sets whose job it is to make sure people's hair and clothing and other items remain consistent from shot to shot. These are small details compared to the overall consistency between trilogies. I'd rather see a misplaced stormtooper or jawa here and there rather than entire chunks of the OT ruined by sloppy writing in the PT.
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