[Jordan]

http://www.cnn.com/2...rope/index.html

Why does he think he has any say on this matter. Kosovo belong to serbs!

[J m HofMarN]

Funny... We fought a big war against Serbia to protect Kosovo. You can't just say "Such and such place belongs to whoever". That area of the world is more contested, and has more blood on its ground than Israel. Just because the Kosovar ethnic Albanians are mostly Muslim, that doesn't mean they don't deserve their own homeland. Serbia, under Milosevic et al massacred Albanians, and they dont want to be a part of the coutnry that was responsible for that anymore.

I'm not an expert on the conflict, and ordinarily I'm militantly against the idea that when people have been attacked they're allowed to snatch up any track of land they feel like and claim it as their God given homeland. But in this case the land is being taken from the government that attacked them, and not from some random poor country on the Mediterranean coast. I say if they want independence from Serbia then more power to them.

[Slade]

And Iraq belongs to Iraqis, and Hawaii belonged to Hawaiians, and Panama belonged to Panamans?, and Cuba belonged to Cubans, and there are probably a good deal more I'm missing.

The bottom line is that Bush should not be allowed to talk, because he's only capable of spouting fallicious bullshit rhetoric and pure stupidity.

This is also hilarious:

Before boarding a flight to return to Washington, Bush also vowed to revive stalled immigration legislation at home and said Monday's Senate vote of no confidence on Attorney General Alberto Gonzales would have "no bearing" on whether he continued to serve or not. (Full story)

"I'll make the determination as to whether he's effective," said Bush, AP reported. "They can have their votes of no-confidence but it's not going to make the determination about who serves in my government."

Bush to congress: SCREW YOU! I DO WHAT I WANT!

Maybe if he'd passed a US civics class, he'd understand that the President can't just do anything he wants all the time with no repercussions, and that the congress and court systems can tell him to stop things. I guess he's gotten really lazy since for the first 6 years of his presidency, the rest of the government let him do whatever he wanted, unchecked, since they were all in his pocket...

[Spoon Poetic]

Holy shit... That's got to be a falsely reported quote. It's got to be. It HAS to be. Can you provide more than one source that Bush said that? I'm appalled if it's true, but I find it very hard to believe that he actually said that and it's not ALL over the news.

[Slade]

Well, here's the AP story that has that quote: http://www.cnn.com/2...n.ap/index.html

Here's another report.
http://www.cbsnews.c...in2912093.shtml


And here's a third.
http://www.npr.org/t...toryId=10936283

I don't know why you're surprised. Since Bush was knocked out of playing golf instead of playing President when the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001 happened, he's undermined the authority of the government, the UN, and the entire world more times than are accountable. The typical administration/supporter rhetoric is that criticism of Bush is counter-productive to whatever bullshit cause they're ram-rodding through Congress at the time, be it election rigging, illegal search and seizure, violation of due process at Guantanimo Bay, the whole PATRIOT ACT Act, etc.

[Cobnat]

Funny... We fought a big war against Serbia to protect Kosovo. You can't just say "Such and such place belongs to whoever". That area of the world is more contested, and has more blood on its ground than Israel. Just because the Kosovar ethnic Albanians are mostly Muslim, that doesn't mean they don't deserve their own homeland. Serbia, under Milosevic et al massacred Albanians, and they dont want to be a part of the coutnry that was responsible for that anymore.

I'm not an expert on the conflict, and ordinarily I'm militantly against the idea that when people have been attacked they're allowed to snatch up any track of land they feel like and claim it as their God given homeland. But in this case the land is being taken from the government that attacked them, and not from some random poor country on the Mediterranean coast. I say if they want independence from Serbia then more power to them.

Hmm… that’s strange, as a Communist I thought you’d be against ethnocentric Neo-Nazis and their causes.

[Jordan]

If Bush wants to start wars around the world, I think he should read some books on warfare and pre-war strategy.

Divide and Conquer. He does neither, he unites the world against him and conquers none. He's like the worst chief in commander ever.

Albanian's also were tried for warcrimes. They started the 1996 war. They bombed Serb civillians sites.

[Cobnat]

I dug up two links about this topic that some people might enjoy.

FIRST LINK: Castro opposes Kosovo Independence.

http://www.adnki.com.......18864&par=0

SECOND LINK: Someone stole Bushes watch.

http://www.serbianna..._2007/0171.html

[MyPantsAreOnFire]

I don't know why you're surprised. Since Bush was knocked out of playing golf instead of playing President when the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001 happened

???

Wasn't he actually in a classroom somewhere down south during storytime when the WTC attacks first occured?

"Mr. President, a plane has crashed into-..."

"SHHHHHH!!! I need to know what happened to the ducks!"

I'm going to miss his inherrent hilariousness.

[Spoon Poetic]

I'm surprised because I hadn't even heard about it, and that right there (calling the government HIS, something I consider to be quite dictatorial speech) is something I feel like the whole world should be clamoring over. I'm not so surprised that he said it as I'm surprised that he said it and it isn't a big deal to people, apparently.

[Jordan]

But in this case the land is being taken from the government that attacked them, and not from some random poor country on the Mediterranean coast. I say if they want independence from Serbia then more power to them.

Kosovo was an autonmous peice of land in the republic of Yugoslavia. It never fully belonged to them. Albanian refugees flooded the land, then went for the full prize by trying to snatch it entirely. They bombed Serbian churches whilst mosques started popping up. They were trying to re-engineer the demographics of the place. Albanians eventually won world support, even though the KLA was first seen as a terrorist group which attacked Serbian civillian sites. Later on NATO and the US sided with them and bombed the shit out of belgrade.

By 1999, all the Albanians returned. Serb refugees had to flee though. Ones that stayed are still being persecuted. 1000's have gone missing in Kosovo since 1999.

http://www.chronicle...azine.org/?p=36

Funny article. Some truth to it.

Castro made some good points there Cobnat.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 12 June 2007 - 01:46 PM

[J m HofMarN]

Ok, after reading an article on the history of Kosovo as well as President Castro's comments, I have to say...

I have no idea what to think....

"The province was first formed in 1945 as the Autonomous Kosovo-Metohian Area to protect[citation needed] its regional Albanian majority within the People's Republic of Serbia as a member of the Federal People's Republic of Yugoslavia under the leadership of the Partisan leader, Josip Broz Tito, but with no factual autonomy. After Yugoslavia's name change to the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and Serbia's to the Socialist Republic of Serbia in 1953, Kosovo gained inner autonomy in the 1960s. In the 1974 constitution, the Socialist Autonomous Province of Kosovo's government received higher powers, including the highest governmental titles — President and Premier and a seat in the Federal Presidency which made it a de facto Socialist Republic within the Federation, but remaining as a Socialist Autonomous Province within the Socialist Republic of Serbia."

To me it sounds like the Albanians and the serbs, along with nazis, communists, and the ottomans, have run around this place so much that it makes me dizzy. But, the last people to commit a major genocide there were the Serbs, and the majority there are Kosovar Albanians. The wikipedia article also shows that in the 2004 unrest which you reference, after the burning of Serb homes and churches, the Kosovar authorities (not UN) arrested over 300 Albanians on charges relating to it, indicates to me that this is not state sponsored and that the Kosovo government is at least nominally responsible.

I'm going to say that the Serbs did some awful things under milosevic, and that Kosovo probably should be independent. At the moment it appears as though this is the general consensus around the world. It would honestly happen pretty much no matter what since Kosovo is currently independent in all but name. Bush might just be doing this to curry favor, as I said.

I'm not really solid on this though, because my eyes glazed over somewhere in that article, though probably a lot further into it than Bush's did if he even read anything on the place at all. There's a history of genocide there going back thousands of years, and I don't know what the solution to it is.

[Cobnat]

What people fail to see here is that Kosovo Serbs have been living in apartheid since 1999. Also the KLA have thrown out all Jews, Gypsies and Albanians loyal to Serbia in an effort of purifying Kosovo. The basic problem is not Serbia, Albania, Serbs or Albanians but the KLA. They are the ones who have been causing all the problems, they are the ones who started the war with Milosevic that started the exodus of Albanians and the eventual exodus of Serbs, Jews and Roma. Basically before the KLA showed up in 1988, Kosovo was a peaceful and ethnically equal society. Now former KLA members are turning Kosovo into some kind of twisted ethnically pure Mafia state were eventually Albanian civilians will suffer severely.

As for the reasons why Western leaders are united for the independence of Kosovo, it seems that they think they can make up for all the civilians they have murdered in the Middle-East. Of course the Muslims in Europe are not the same Muslims in the Middle-East, that is what the West cannot seem to understand and one day it will be their undoing.

[J m HofMarN]

Ok. I call bullshit.

"The KLA started all the trouble" is not a decent argument. When people have been killing eachother for 2000 years on a piece of land you can't just blame one side. This is the same area that, about 100 years ago, was the flashpoint for world war 1. This is the part of the world where Vlad Tepyst liked to stick people up on pikes to die. Where Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Muslim and Protestant faiths all want to hold sway. People have been being killed there for milennia, and there have always been refugees coming or going. The KLA didn't start it.

This isn't like in Palestine where there was relative peace and respect under the Ottomans until the British occupied the place and then had an influx of Jews who never lived there for as long as anyone can remember.

"Of course the Muslims in Europe are not the same Muslims in the Middle-East, that is what the West cannot seem to understand and one day it will be their undoing."

Why is there a "bum bum BUM!" subtext to this post? What are you trying to say?

Step 1: Kosovo gains independence.

Step 2:

Step 3: DESTRUCTION OF TEH WESTERN WORLD OMGROFLMAO TEROISM!

[Cobnat]

"The KLA started all the trouble" is not a decent argument. When people have been killing eachother for 2000 years on a piece of land you can't just blame one side. This is the same area that, about 100 years ago, was the flashpoint for world war 1. This is the part of the world where Vlad Tepyst liked to stick people up on pikes to die. Where Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Muslim and Protestant faiths all want to hold sway. People have been being killed there for milennia, and there have always been refugees coming or going. The KLA didn't start it.

I was talking about the period between WW2 and the 90s. Using ancient history (history) to justify genocide is stupid and wrong.

This isn't like in Palestine where there was relative peace and respect under the Ottomans until the British occupied the place and then had an influx of Jews who never lived there for as long as anyone can remember.

If by relative peace and respect you mean countless massacres against all non-Sunnis, then I agree with you. Anyway, there was a “relative peace” only because the Palestinians had the Ottomans to back them up if the Jews ever got out of line.

"Of course the Muslims in Europe are not the same Muslims in the Middle-East, that is what the West cannot seem to understand and one day it will be their undoing."

I meant that helping Muslims in Europe will not make up for what the West has done in the Middle-East.

Why is there a "bum bum BUM!" subtext to this post? What are you trying to say?

Step 1: Kosovo gains independence.

Step 2:

Step 3: DESTRUCTION OF TEH WESTERN WORLD OMGROFLMAO TEROISM!

Yes because that is obviously NOT what happened with Afghanistan in the 80s. /sarcasm