[Chefelf]

Why I Hate People That Self-Identify as Nerds or Geeks

Something I have long hated has been the self proclaimed nerd/geek (SPNG). This breed has been around for a while. The problem with this group of people is that they truly think and believe that they are special, unique, and better than everyone else. Here are some things I hate about the SPNG:

• The SPNG hates people and things in the mainstream and latches onto obscure music, television, or movies until they hear someone they don't like mention them then disposes of them because they are too mainstream.
• The SPNG constantly flaunts their geek cred by mentioning how amazing they are for liking something that is slightly less mainstream.
• The SPNG does not see the humor in the fact that they like an "obscure" TV show with only 5,000,000 viewers instead of a mainstream show with 10,000,000 viewers.
• The SPNG will ocassionally throw in a line from Flight of the Conchords and nod knowingly to his friends as if you didn't know what they were talking about.
• The SPNG may or may not pretend to like Battlestar Galactica a little more than they actually do to preserve their nerd cred.
• The SPNG definitely pretends to like Johnathan Coulton much more than they actually do.
• The SPNG claims that they've never actually heard of American Idol even though that is impossible.
• The SPNG actually thinks a quote from Star Wars is obscure even though there isn't a single line in any of the six movies that is not instantly recognizable to 85% of all males from the age of 25 to 45.
• The SPNG loves to self-aggrandize about how beautiful their life/culture is.
• The SPNG writes lenghty emails to television networks begging them not to cancel their favorite show. This email includes a point-by-point analysis of how the show actually has much more viewers and fans than the network realizes and takes it for granted that the network has not actually done the math on whether canceling the show will be beneficial to their bottom line. Apparently TV networks just like to cancel hugely popular and lucrative shows just to make geeks sad.
• The SPNG either just discovered xkcd or discovered it years ago and now hates it because other SPNGs have discovered it.
• The Famous SPNG writes books and does interviews where they talk about how special their geek culture is while other SPNGs fawn over said books or interviews.
• The SPNG thinks that maybe, one day, one of their online petitions will be successful.
• The SPNG thinks that they are better than other people because their tastes are more refined and original. They think these other people are either pedestrian or snobbish. The SPNG legitimately does not see the irony in this.

I feel much better now. That's been bugging me for a while.

It seems this blog post is not entirely stable! It's business time!

[Gobbler]

What, no mention of Firefly?

[Laura]

I haven't noticed this with FotC and JoCo. I have noticed this a LOT with xkcd. (Before that, Homestar Runner. Before that, that "Ninjas are Totally Sweet" page.)

The problem, for me, isn't self-identification as nerds or geeks, which I think can be harmless, but assuming on no basis that nobody else could possibly have the same AWESOME cultural reference points as you do, because you're so AWESOME that only you know about AWESOME things and nobody else is AWESOME enough to appreciate anything AWESOME or TOTALLY SWEET. It's nice to stumble on something you like and to think of it as your own special find, but you can't assume that you're so unique, or so cutting-edge, that nobody else has done the same thing.

Look, I don't expect people to be mind-readers and to know what I have and haven't heard of already. And I don't have anything against people sharing the joy when they discover some new great thing. But there's a right and a wrong way to find out if someone has heard of something.

A quick guide:

"Do you read xkcd?" = ok
"Have you heard of the comic xkcd?" = borderline
"There's this great comic, xkcd." = not ok
"xkcd.com" = YES I KNOW.

Overexplaining your references can come from a well-meaning place, but it feels like dumbing-down, and people don't like to be talked down to. It's alienating. (Don't get me started on the the knowing look to the friends, implying exclusion from a super-exclusive!!!!! group based on presumed ignorance of a widespread cultural touchstone. There the intent is obviously to alienate, but they're just inept at it. It's kind of funny actually.)

Generally, I'm in favor of just assuming that people understand your references. If they get them, either they'll feel like you're sharing a special joke, and that's the opposite of alienating; or they'll know what you're referring to so well it won't even ping them as a reference (you look like a real tool if you mark something as a super-obscure reference that doesn't even register with your audience as something someone could possibly not have heard of. Like people who hyperlink the phrase "jump the shark".) If your audience doesn't get your reference, they probably won't even notice it *was* a reference, so no harm done. If they really don't understand what you mean, and they want to, they can just ask, or, you know, everyone knows how to use google. (Have you heard of this great search engine?)

This post has been edited by Laura: 31 March 2009 - 02:28 PM

[Spoon Poetic]

Perfect example of the Famous SPNG: Wil Wheaton! Might be starting a flame war here but I can't stand the guy.


I have all the same complaints, but you left out a big one - most SPNGs will also CONSTANTLY talk down to you, as though they are waaaay more intelligent than you, no matter what the topic of conversation. Especially if you are a girl. They might not even realize they are doing it, but it's just their nature to have that haughty yet nerdy tone of voice, body language, and syntax. Even when they are admitting they know nothing about a topic, they say it in a way that indicates they are too intelligent to have bothered learning about that topic, and are therefore smarter than you for it.

[civilian_number_two]

Well this is a specific type of SPNG that you all are describing, the one that tries to gain pop nerd cred for liking the right pop nerd stuff. There are lots of folks with the exact same set of behaviour but different references, like the self-professed literati who read all of the popular and prize-winning novels and claim never to have read anything trashy. And of course they'll take any opportunity to tell you they don't even have a tv. Counterparts in the world of self-professed film snobbery will tell you they have a tv only for the independent film channel or whatever.

I think I'm a nerd or a geek, but I know squat about video games and I only hear of most web comics by accident (or here), and would never assume they're popular enough that I could refer to them without saying "web comic." I don't assume that even really popular and well-produced stuff like Order of the Stick is known to many people outside comic book stores or game communities. I don't think I'm pretentious about it, but I would have to say web comic if I was trying to tell a new acquaintance about that one. For proof of that exact phenomenon (ie the limited readership and popularity of comic books), look at the common reaction to the film Watchmen. Most people admit they've never read it. So how can I go from knowing that to assuming thy might have heard of xkcd?

I get what you're talking about Nate, but really you're just describing pretentious people in general. I remember when I was in college and excited to see U2's Joshua Tree tour (I had been too young to see them on their most recent tour, 4 years earlier, as they had played only licensed venues). This fellow I met in the dorms was pontificating loudly about how he liked them before but now they were too popular. This was the first time I'd ever met a guy like that, so I got into it with him about how it'd make sense to me if he didn't like the bluesy turn they'd taken, but that if he actually liked the album (IMO their second best after Unforgettable Fire), then refusing to listen to them now was idiotic. He stuck to his guns mainly by repeating himself over and over. For the same reasons he didn't like REM anymore, now that stuff from Document was getting airplay. Now that I think of it, pretentious music snobs are more common than any other type of the character you're describing. If I was having that interaction today, I wouldn't even bother getting into it with him, but I'd sure make fun of him. See, I don't follow U2 anymore but not because they're too popular. It's because everytime I hear a new song, like this Sexy Boots thing or even the well-produced Vertigo, I genuinely don't like it. However I saw REM in concert recently and they still hold up.

Most of the guys I know who self-identify as nerds or geeks do so because they play board games of the kind no one ever pulls out at parties. I think they are spot-on with their self-assessment, even though most of them are successful and socially well-behaved. And I can't think of any of them who is pretentious about their hobbies. I mean, how cool can you claim to be while talking about Warhammer?

[TheOrator]

While I agree there certainly are a number of folks like this, and that all those traits are pretty obnoxious, giving that group the name "Self-Proclaimed Nerds/Geeks" seems a little harsh to me.

Because, and I don't know about you, I am, after all, a geek.


Balls. Civ beat me to it.

Nice to see we're on the same page some of the time, man!

[Spoon Poetic]

Well maybe a better title would be better, because I've called myself a geek before, and heck, I might even be one. But I knew exactly "the guy" Nate was referring to when he wrote this.

And yes, there are pretentious people from all, um, categorizations of people (???). But I find some to be more irritating than others. This one in particular tends to top my list of annoying pretentious people. Not sure why, though. Maybe it's because everyone else is just a snob, but these guys truly aren't even cool enough for that title! (You know, being nerds and all. )

[Laura]

I don't think I'm pretentious about it, but I would have to say web comic if I was trying to tell a new acquaintance about that one. For proof of that exact phenomenon (ie the limited readership and popularity of comic books), look at the common reaction to the film Watchmen. Most people admit they've never read it. So how can I go from knowing that to assuming thy might have heard of xkcd?

Yeah, of course, context - I mean, if someone at my office said "There's this webcomic about D&D--that is, Dungeons and Dragons" I'd be like "Dude, Order of the Stick? Let's get lunch!" I mean, that's a genuinely nice unexpected-find moment.

But the people who send me links to xkcd like I've never heard of it, or overexplain geek references to me generally know me only as geek friend-of-friends or because they read something I wrote online. So it comes off more as them taking a stance of being more knowledgable than me in this area we both supposedly inhabit.

I can't think of any of them who is pretentious about their hobbies. I mean, how cool can you claim to be while talking about Warhammer?

You might be surprised.

Music snobs and geeky-stuff snobs are annoying for the same reasons, I think; the geeks just grate particularly because (1) the stuff they're pretentious about is stuff I know about, so I don't have that genuine respect for someone who's an expert in a field I don't know, and (2) the saving grace of nerdy hobbies IS that they're so inherently uncool that you really shouldn't be even able to be snobby about them. (Though it's also tiresome when nerds have a lot shame and guilt about it.)

[civilian_number_two]

I agree on all counts. I don't have the same reaction to the nerds of the sort you're describing; I generally feel a little better about myself for not trying to gain points by knowing about some comic book or something. Generally when I rec0ommend something to someone it's not so I can praise myself for knowing about it; it's because I really liked it and I want to share. But I don't feel the urge to suppress sharing popular stuff; I will recommend Chris Rock HBO specials if they make me laugh.

I don't mind when people are trying to share stuff they really love with people they think might love it. I was doing that with City of God before it got a more mainstream release and I was sure people were already aware of it. So the reaction is entirely to people who are listing stuff just to earn cool points.

I suppose my reations are the opposites of yours, laura, though I think the motives behind my reactions are the same.

With the comic book or video game or tv geeks I tend to feel a bit condescending, because I like a lot of the same stuff but don't think any of it is especially cool. It's just entertainment and hobbies, right? I may like it, but I don't want to make homework so I can keep up.

With the music geeks I generally have a different reaction, because generally I think they have a greater stake in feeling superior. Maybe it's this guilt thing you're talking about Laura but it seems like the comic book guys don't have a superior look to them when you acknowledge that no, you've never heard of the underground sensation du jour. Music guys pretty much always do. Also they seem even more likely to slam you, at least with an eye roll, if you say you like The Beatles or The Clash. It's like, if everybody's heard of the band, why mention that you like them? You should only like things that noone has heard of. I think all of these guys are the Jack Black character in High Fidelity. Again, it's pop music; I may like the things you're recommending, but I don't want homework.

[Chefelf]

What, no mention of Firefly?

Aw, man! I had it in there at one point and I must've edited it out. Good call, though. (BTW: I just started and finished watching Firefly for the first time last week. So be it. I know I'm super late to the party.)

Generally, I'm in favor of just assuming that people understand your references.

Agreed. People will either get it and move on or not get it, ignore it, and move on.

I have all the same complaints, but you left out a big one - most SPNGs will also CONSTANTLY talk down to you, as though they are waaaay more intelligent than you, no matter what the topic of conversation.

I so hope that SPNG catches on (even though it won't) so I can claim originating it.

Music snobs and geeky-stuff snobs are annoying for the same reasons, I think; the geeks just grate particularly because (1) the stuff they're pretentious about is stuff I know about, so I don't have that genuine respect for someone who's an expert in a field I don't know, and (2) the saving grace of nerdy hobbies IS that they're so inherently uncool that you really shouldn't be even able to be snobby about them. (Though it's also tiresome when nerds have a lot shame and guilt about it.)

The music snob equivalent of this annoys me ten times as much. I also hate the fact that EVERYONE thinks they have this incredibly eclectic taste in music and posts things like, "I have a super eclectic taste in music. One minute I'm listening to Madonna, then the next minute I'm listening to Outkast. It's crazy! I like pretty much anything except country!"

No one seems to realize that an "eclectic" taste in music is completely run of the mill.

Oh, yeah, and Civ, I can't stand the people who are so proud to not own a TV. It would be fine if they didn't own a TV and just kept their trap shut about it . . . but they NEVER do.

[srmoore]

I have to agree with Nate on this one. And the comments I read for the most part. (I kind of skimmed the last half a page.) I know some people who are like this. I also know some people who are super nerds/geeks who are just into the geek things, but just come off as a big old loveable geek. I'm a geek.. but I don't go out of my way to prove it, nor to prove that it makes me better than the rest of the mortals. (Except this one guy.. I am totaly better than him. really)

Anyway. Just my two cents because I haven't been posting much at all.

I also started a blog to keep track of my geeky endevors, but I have two posts on it total, and they are lame. Maybe I'll share later. The food blog hasn't been started yet either. (soon maybe.)

The music snob equivalent of this annoys me ten times as much. I also hate the fact that EVERYONE thinks they have this incredibly eclectic taste in music and posts things like, "I have a super eclectic taste in music. One minute I'm listening to Madonna, then the next minute I'm listening to Outkast. It's crazy! I like pretty much anything except country!"

No one seems to realize that an "eclectic" taste in music is completely run of the mill.

Man.. I do have an eclectic taste. really... I do... love me! err... I mean.. um... Anyway! I listen to stuff a lot of people don't know. But I'm more than happy to suggest stuff to people when I hear they like something that is more known. Not to be snobby.. but because I think they might actually like it. (And who doesn't like to find new music they like?)

Anyway. enough ranting.

[barend]

Generally, I'm in favor of just assuming that people understand your references. If they get them, either they'll feel like you're sharing a special joke, and that's the opposite of alienating; or they'll know what you're referring to so well it won't even ping them as a reference (you look like a real tool if you mark something as a super-obscure reference that doesn't even register with your audience as something someone could possibly not have heard of. Like people who hyperlink the phrase "jump the shark".) If your audience doesn't get your reference, they probably won't even notice it *was* a reference, so no harm done. If they really don't understand what you mean, and they want to, they can just ask, or, you know, everyone knows how to use google. (Have you heard of this great search engine?)

As someone who got slapped for quoting 'Evil Dead 3: Army of Darkness' wihle making love to someone who hadn't, I'm going to slightly disagree and say there IS harm.

[reiner]

SPNGs are the reason I'm a self hating nerd. I have a hard time being around other nerdy types who share interests for the most part. I think the previous points above are valid about these people just being pretentious.

Also, I run into certain mannerisms and social failings that drive me insane. I hate it when people find out I play WoW or play/played D&D and the such. I, as a general rule, do not talk about these things outside of the people I play them with. Most folks aren't interested in my nerdly pursuits. Sometimes I've been asked if I participate in them, to which I'll answer honestly, however I won't go into detail. It's usually a yes or no answer. The reason I have problems with others I encounter is that for some bizarre reason these people will go into a state of mental diarrhea, expelling all knowledge and trivia about their rank 14 drow sorceron from the boarderlands of Flabbidyfloo... and I hate being talked at about stuff I'm not interested in.

There's a special breed of person that runs hobby stores. There were/are three stores I frequent which cater to my nerd needs: a resale shop for old games/dvds/toys/etc, a tablestop/board game shop, and a Japanese import shop. I feel bad for these folks who run the stores, because day in and day out, they get talked at by these pretentious blabbermouths about all sorts of esoteric, inane shit. They will even run off other customers to keep the attention of the shop keepers. You can tell they're grateful when you come in and run off a SPNG from their counter. I keep my conversations with them cordial and to the point and then sometimes they enjoy someone who will sit and listen to their interests instead of the other way around. On a sad note, one of the stores I mentioned eventually shut down. The SPNGs harassed the more timid customers away by hanging around the shop all day and telling them the finer points of whatever they were buying.

As someone who got slapped for quoting 'Evil Dead 3: Army of Darkness' wihle making love to someone who hadn't, I'm going to slightly disagree and say there IS harm.

Haha Barend, that's great. I started a blog of stuff I blurt out mid-coitus. I'd like to post that story if you would give me permission.

[civilian_number_two]

More on the self-loathing or embarrassed shit: why is it that folks get nervous when they find out that you have a few thousand movies on DVD, but they don't blink when they meet a dude who can rattle off twenty years' worth of hockey trivia?

IMO, it's all just hobbies, and we're all nerds, even the guys who are fixated on hockey and can't shut up about it. I think Nick Hornby might be the only guy to look at this phenomenon, but I'm not sure because I haven't read rthat book or seen either film derived from it.

[reiner]

More on the self-loathing or embarrassed shit: why is it that folks get nervous when they find out that you have a few thousand movies on DVD, but they don't blink when they meet a dude who can rattle off twenty years' worth of hockey trivia?

IMO, it's all just hobbies, and we're all nerds, even the guys who are fixated on hockey and can't shut up about it. I think Nick Hornby might be the only guy to look at this phenomenon, but I'm not sure because I haven't read rthat book or seen either film derived from it.

Depends on the person, Civ. I know I kind of lump the sports freaks in with the folks I described. Essentially they don't realize I don't care who the MVP was at teh All Star game in 1985, no matter how many times I tell them.

It's like radio and TV. Eventually they'll become more and more accepted in general.