The simplest way for Obi-Wan to explain to Luke in the 2 minutes or less of screen time that he had in ANH to explai the force to Luke would be to explain the "mystical energy field" and skip the details of how one is able to interface with such a field. Not to mention that Obi-Wans speech (much like Qui-Gon's) is exposition of the most blatant kind. To a movie-goer watching ANH for the first time in 77 who knows nothing about what the force is let alone why someone might be able to interact with it, the mention of midichlorians at this point would have been confusing, awkward and, yes, unnecesary. Fastforward 20 or so years to an audience who grew up with the concept of the force and to here the same riff out of Qui-Gon's mouth would have been unnecesary and tedious.
It doesn't follow that it does not make sense not to mention them because it might have made sense to mention them. Midichlorians and their measurement were only important to Jedi as a means of identifying and quantifying force ability in potential Jedis. Luke was a known quantity. And once again you are going to have to distinguish between Lucas leaving out an on-screen explanation (which we know to be the case) and Yoda leaving out any explanation to Luke off-screen (which we DON'T know to be the case).
Eh? Of course they didn't exist in his mind at the time of the OT but why on Earth does that mean they should be left out of the PT? I'm sure Vader was not Luke's father when Lucas wrote ANH and you can be damn sure Leia wasn't his sister at the time of ESB. Should these revelations not have happened. They created more story-telling difficulties re Kenobi's "a certain point of view"/out and out lie then midichlorians ever have.
OK you have gotten hung up on the "kid" part of the soccer analogy when it is not relevant at all. I could just as easily have said young man or whatever the point of both analogies is that understanding how something works in great technical detail does not in many cases make you more accomplished in that area. ie To be good at Doom 3 you do not have to know about video cards or 3D graphic engines or machine code, to be a good runner you don't have to understand muscle fibre contraction at a molecular level and finally to be an accomplished force user you don't have to know jack-squat about midichlorians.
As you pointed out before: real life explanation - Lucas obviously hadn't come up with midichlorians yet. In-story explanation: either it happened off-screen on Dagobah or it wasn't felt to be important enough given the rather gruelling Jedi crash-course that Luke was being put through.
See last post.
OK. It seems to me that there is a misconception here over the meaning of continuity as it applies to narrative fiction. Let me clarify:
In the 2009 blockbuster Spiderboy 1, Spiderboy has a friend who shows up in a few scenes has a few funny lines and nothing much else. In the second movie he shows up again and he has a girlfriend. Through dialogue it is revealed that they have been going out since before the events of Spiderboy 1. This is not a continuity error or a lack of continuity. Even if the writers at the time of Spiderboy 1 did not intend for him to have a girlfriend at the time of writing.
However if this friend died at the end of Spiderboy 1 or had his arm blown off and he shows up in Spiderboy 2 completely fine with no explanation then this is a continuity error, at least until it is explained away in Spiderboy 3.
By your definition Leia being Luke's sister or Vader being Luke's father are continuity errors since they were not planned at the time of their characters introduction.
Vader knew jack-all about Luke's force use or lack thereof. His force training had consisted of 30 minutes with a lightsabre on the Falcon by the time Vader had begun his search. It was obviously his potential force ability that Vader was interested in or his actions make little sense. And Leia "being a politician not a force-user"? Luke was a farmer is that profession more suited to Jedi training? As I said Luke had taken 30 minutes of pre-school Jedi training by the time Vader had begun his Skywalker search between ANH and ESB so he was hardly some unfathomable leap ahead of her in terms of training. And by the time Vader met her in ANH or pre-ANH Luke had had no history of force-use, Vader didn't know he existed and Leia would have been the most powerful potential force user he probably ever would have met apart from himself. Why do absolutely nothing about this unless....he could not tell that "the force was strong in this one" just through conversation and torture.
The point about his attempt to turn Luke was not that Luke already had force abilities but that Vader knew he was his son and knew therefore he would be hella powerful. This is explained by Kenobi in ROTJ. He didn't know Leia was his daughter, couldn't tell if she had force-potential without that information and hence left her alone.
Yes it could have been done WITHOUT midichlorians. Would it have been better? You say yes, I say no.
Well it does make force use a little less mysterious if that is what you are connoting by the term "mystical". However it doesn't really change the "mystical" nature of the force itself, just our interaction with it. And I don't see how the existance of midichloians changes the truth of Yoda's statement at all.
Still I will grant you this point and this seems to be the crucial difference of opinion between a midichlorian basher and a midichlorian gusher. I don't really mind the force being demystified, quantified somewhat. Lots of Star Wars fans do. Its not the fact that it is an unnecessary addition to the saga but that it is one that some people don't like that is important
EDIT: OK I seem to have exceeded the allowed quotes - Helen's text is now underlined instead.
Two, it was never mentioned - not even hinted at - in any of the previous movies, and no matter how you try to explain this away it DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.
OK your reasoning here does not make sense. But we have been over this before and I have addressed this argument (that because it was not mentioned in the other movies its inclusion in TPM violates some logical law) in this post above. So lets move on.
Seeing the Emperor shoot lighting from his hands was not a problem, as Vader didn't need that ability during the movies and there was no way the Jedi were going to teach it to Luke. But failing to mention such a basic element of the Force to him makes no sense whatsoever.
Well now that you mention it I think it makes a lot less sense that Yoda didn't say to Luke "Do not underestimate the power of the Emperor - HE CAN SHOOT FRICKING LIGHTNING BOLTS OUT OF HIS HANDS!!! Watch out for THE LIGHTNING!" Then again...he may have said it offscreen
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Anyway, I'm not going to argue this any more. I have other things to do and in any case, like I told you, I've been through all this before with someone else. Go ahead and enjoy the Prequels if you like them, and have a nice day.
Fair enough. May the force be with you. Midichlorian free of course.
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This post has been edited by darthsmash: 28 April 2005 - 10:51 AM