Sailor Abbey: Domitian was considered the reincarnation of Nero, "the beast that had been slain." He was also the second emperor (after Nero) to make a strong push for the deification of the Emperor himself and the persecution of Christianity. I know you didn't suggest it, but many understand that the city of Babylon, on "seven hills," is the Rome that "John" would have known, and not something silly like the Roman Catholic Church (Vatican city, btw, does not encompass the city of Rome). Many who do make this understanding suggest that the Book of Revelation was written in "code" so that the Romans wouldn't understand it. This is of course nonsense, since the name Jesus is peppered through it. Anyone who read it would have understood it as Apocalyptic literature, with a message that the present evil would be defeated eventually and that God's patient people would endure. Please see also similar writings made during the Hebrews' captivity under Nebuchadnezzar (the Book of Daniel).
Zatoichi: To say you don't understand how something could have happened, and then to conclude "God," is to commit tyhe same crime you accuse the scientists of committing. You are supplying a conclusion to your problem without evidence. Whereas in the history of science, we have acknowledged our own errors or exposed those of predecessors, religious explanations, relying on no evidence, have not had a need to develop. Where did the water go? God. How did all those species come to be on the planet? God. Is there life on other planets? NO! But if so, then God.
Where did the water go? Water is formed by a chemical bond. The current theroy is that the oxygen is in the limestone that is prvalent on the planet's surface, while the Hydrogen enriches the soil. Its discovery is the source of the news you report. Evolution is a THEORY, yes, like the THEORY of gravity. Remember that the word THEORY does not mean the same thing as HYPOTHESIS and you won't sound half as much like a liberal arts student trying to defend Christianity against mean old science. People in the time of Christ believed in a round Earth, though people in times before that had not. Isaiah believed in a flat Earth, for sure. The Hebrews were a prescientific people, and they wrote of a flat Earth. The Greeks were amazing theoreticians, composing science without long tedious studies or miles of evidence. They noticed that ships on the horizon "dipped" into the sea. Aristotle had observed that the Earth cast a round shadow on the moon, like the shadow one sphere casts on another. Eratosthenes went on to gauge its size based on a rumour he'd heard about the location of the sun at the solstice in Egypt. He compared this rumour with shadows measured at home in Greece and extrapolated the size of the spherical Earth. He was more or less accurate, too, within a scientific allowance, except for the bulge in the centre. All of this was lost for a time when Christianity took over the Hellenised world, and science was suppressed. Galileo was placed under house arrest for saying things everyone already knew were true. Science was lost for centuries, only to be rediscovered when nations learned how valuable science could be for warfare. Etc.
Corvax: Every word of it brilliant. I do think there is something to those apocryphal gospels, though the Gospel of Mary, like you say, is doubtful, likely written in later centuries when Cathoplics wanted more shit about Mary to remind folks how important she is. The only thing I have any contest with in what you have said is that relgion survives because "people don't like to think for themselves." Well, maybe for some, but maybe too religion survives because people feel it fills a personal need, and yes, they pick and choose the elements that fit their personal moral scheme. I would say that a number of things survive for the reason you cite, for instance consumerism, homophobia, racism and war (all frequently defended by religions, but each having its own origin). But religion can be and has been a relatively harmless enterprise that connects people and is responsible for marriages and business partnerships and the building of communities. I would say when managed properly religion is just a life philosophy, and in its absence we would have somehting else, which heaven forbid would probably be some cult of dietng and self-improvement. I am an atheist and I can't say that religion is ONLY a crutch for the stupid and the purposeless. Most of our great theoretical scientistists were Christian (Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein among the most common notables mentioned), and I won't say they couldn't think for themselves.
This post has been edited by civilian_number_two: 27 February 2006 - 04:43 PM