but alot of people swallowed it.
Which moments in ROTS did work for you?
#166
Posted 16 May 2006 - 08:12 PM
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#167
Posted 16 May 2006 - 10:14 PM
Another thing to point out about Luke's "piloting".
Luke, who has no experience or training flying an x-wing in space, walks into a briefing room full of trained, experienced pilots with this cocky attitude like "This shit is simple, since I shot womp rats at home in a totally different space craft." and "You guys ain't got shit on me." If I were the other pilots hearing someone who never has fought a battle in his life talking about how easy it is to destroy the Empire's biggest weapon, I would probably kick his ass.
If there was some training program on Tatooine that Luke participated in, then I would buy it. But I don't think his T-16 flying could have ever prepared him to be that successful for his first time of sitting in that x-wing.
The moral of the story is that both scenarios are highly unrealistic.
Luke, who has no experience or training flying an x-wing in space, walks into a briefing room full of trained, experienced pilots with this cocky attitude like "This shit is simple, since I shot womp rats at home in a totally different space craft." and "You guys ain't got shit on me." If I were the other pilots hearing someone who never has fought a battle in his life talking about how easy it is to destroy the Empire's biggest weapon, I would probably kick his ass.
If there was some training program on Tatooine that Luke participated in, then I would buy it. But I don't think his T-16 flying could have ever prepared him to be that successful for his first time of sitting in that x-wing.
The moral of the story is that both scenarios are highly unrealistic.
This post has been edited by Storm: 16 May 2006 - 10:16 PM
#168
Posted 16 May 2006 - 10:30 PM
We know that. But one is unrealistic in the context of an already unrealistic fantasy film, and the other is so absurd it's not even remotely close to being in the same galactic orbit of "unrealistic." Both work perfectly in the context of the films they occur in, namely that ANH is realism-stretched fantasy that still works on a basic narrative/filmmaking/storytelling level and TPM is a series of wacky highjinks and hilarious escapades that barely make up a single coherrent film.
This constant insistence for what essentially amount to learning tutorials is baffling...such things do NOT make good or even watchable films unless you get off on office space learning films. ANH is constantly escalating the tension once they escape the Death Star...the Rebel base is going to be destroyed, Han is leaving, this is our only chance to win, etc., etc.. Stopping the film dead with a sequence of Luke in a simulator or sitting in on a "flying an x-wing 101" class is simply terrible pacing. Having been told he's a good pilot and then seeing him be a good pilot is not a massive jump by any stretch of the imagination except for people going waaaaaaaaaaay out of their way to find flaws to try and justify the terrible movies they're defending. Again, it's basic plot/character development. Being told Luke is a pilot plus the x-factor of this mysterious Force thing we've been hyped up about makes the climax of ANH fit in perfectly with the context of the rest of the film. It's a seamless plot development, period. What Storm and jariten are asking for simply does not exist in well made, exciting and watchable films.
This constant insistence for what essentially amount to learning tutorials is baffling...such things do NOT make good or even watchable films unless you get off on office space learning films. ANH is constantly escalating the tension once they escape the Death Star...the Rebel base is going to be destroyed, Han is leaving, this is our only chance to win, etc., etc.. Stopping the film dead with a sequence of Luke in a simulator or sitting in on a "flying an x-wing 101" class is simply terrible pacing. Having been told he's a good pilot and then seeing him be a good pilot is not a massive jump by any stretch of the imagination except for people going waaaaaaaaaaay out of their way to find flaws to try and justify the terrible movies they're defending. Again, it's basic plot/character development. Being told Luke is a pilot plus the x-factor of this mysterious Force thing we've been hyped up about makes the climax of ANH fit in perfectly with the context of the rest of the film. It's a seamless plot development, period. What Storm and jariten are asking for simply does not exist in well made, exciting and watchable films.
#169
Posted 16 May 2006 - 11:23 PM
saying luke should have died is like saying the terminator should have killed sarah conner.
it wasn't impossible for our hero to survive, only improbable. that's what makes it a good yarn.
having him go though training and studying hard living in a rich family and all that crap preparing for the day he'd blow up the death star would have been... well... TOP GUN. and that movie sucks.
what we saw in ANH wasn't the opposite of that... having a baby crash destroy and escape, was up there with the kung fu baby in kung-pow.
pure sillyness.
vomit blood sillyness.
it wasn't impossible for our hero to survive, only improbable. that's what makes it a good yarn.
having him go though training and studying hard living in a rich family and all that crap preparing for the day he'd blow up the death star would have been... well... TOP GUN. and that movie sucks.
what we saw in ANH wasn't the opposite of that... having a baby crash destroy and escape, was up there with the kung fu baby in kung-pow.
pure sillyness.
vomit blood sillyness.
>>The Adventures of Heinrich Von Bastard<< (A Web Comic)
Also: The Chefelf.com Lord of the Rings | RoBUTZ (a primative webcomic) | KOTOR 1 NPC profiles |
Music: HYPOID (industrial rock) | Spectrox Toxemia (Death Metal) | Cannibalingus (80s style thrash metal) | Wasabi Nose Bleed (Exp.Techno) | DeadfeeD (Exp.Ambient) |||(more to come)
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Music: HYPOID (industrial rock) | Spectrox Toxemia (Death Metal) | Cannibalingus (80s style thrash metal) | Wasabi Nose Bleed (Exp.Techno) | DeadfeeD (Exp.Ambient) |||(more to come)
#170
Posted 17 May 2006 - 06:55 AM
QUOTE (barend @ May 17 2006, 12:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
having a baby crash destroy and escape, was up there with the kung fu baby in kung-pow.
pure sillyness.
vomit blood sillyness.
pure sillyness.
vomit blood sillyness.
Now theres a classy film!
#171
Posted 17 May 2006 - 09:27 PM
QUOTE
What Storm and jariten are asking for simply does not exist in well made, exciting and watchable films
I said no such thing.
I understand the film the way Barend just put it (and he mysteriously just backed me up), the hero succeeds because he had to succeed, and Lucas chucks out notions like "realism" to get there.
Who gives a shit in the end? Just sit back and enjoy it.
#172
Posted 17 May 2006 - 11:15 PM
if you replaced the word "impossible" every time you used it with "improbably" then yes i backed you up.
realism comes in degrees.
-realistic
-semi-realistic
-improbable
-impossible
-just stupid
OT bounced between realistic and improbable, occasionally dipping it's toes in the springs of impossible
PT held our heads strugling for air in the molten pits of depraved insane absurdity.
realism comes in degrees.
-realistic
-semi-realistic
-improbable
-impossible
-just stupid
OT bounced between realistic and improbable, occasionally dipping it's toes in the springs of impossible
PT held our heads strugling for air in the molten pits of depraved insane absurdity.
>>The Adventures of Heinrich Von Bastard<< (A Web Comic)
Also: The Chefelf.com Lord of the Rings | RoBUTZ (a primative webcomic) | KOTOR 1 NPC profiles |
Music: HYPOID (industrial rock) | Spectrox Toxemia (Death Metal) | Cannibalingus (80s style thrash metal) | Wasabi Nose Bleed (Exp.Techno) | DeadfeeD (Exp.Ambient) |||(more to come)
Also: The Chefelf.com Lord of the Rings | RoBUTZ (a primative webcomic) | KOTOR 1 NPC profiles |
Music: HYPOID (industrial rock) | Spectrox Toxemia (Death Metal) | Cannibalingus (80s style thrash metal) | Wasabi Nose Bleed (Exp.Techno) | DeadfeeD (Exp.Ambient) |||(more to come)
#174
Posted 17 May 2006 - 11:58 PM
why thankyou Mr.Areonfire.
>>The Adventures of Heinrich Von Bastard<< (A Web Comic)
Also: The Chefelf.com Lord of the Rings | RoBUTZ (a primative webcomic) | KOTOR 1 NPC profiles |
Music: HYPOID (industrial rock) | Spectrox Toxemia (Death Metal) | Cannibalingus (80s style thrash metal) | Wasabi Nose Bleed (Exp.Techno) | DeadfeeD (Exp.Ambient) |||(more to come)
Also: The Chefelf.com Lord of the Rings | RoBUTZ (a primative webcomic) | KOTOR 1 NPC profiles |
Music: HYPOID (industrial rock) | Spectrox Toxemia (Death Metal) | Cannibalingus (80s style thrash metal) | Wasabi Nose Bleed (Exp.Techno) | DeadfeeD (Exp.Ambient) |||(more to come)