i dont know where you get your delusions... midichlorains made easy!!!
#17
Posted 28 April 2005 - 06:32 AM
Well Obi-Wan and Luke knew each other for what - a whole day? Two at most. They probably spent only a few hours in conversation together before he gets Vaderised on the Death Star. Only some of that time was spent talking about the nature of the force. It wouldn't make sense for Obi-Wan to instantly launch into some highly technical and confusing rant about the intricacies of midichlorian/force/sentient being interactions. More like "here's a lightsabre, don't cut your head off". As for Yoda we don't know if he did mention/explain it or not. It may have taken place offscreen like much of Luke's training undoubtedly did ie sabre- technique.
Finally they are not actually that important. Yes they would be important for a Jedi of the Old Republic to know about as he was probably always on the lookout for optential Jedi whilst tooling around the galaxy. But once you have someone, like Luke, who actually had the Midichlorian count to be a Jedi they become more or less irrelevant to teaching them how to use the force. Like explaining the workings of the internal combustion engine to someone you are trying to teach how to drive. Its academic.
#18
Posted 28 April 2005 - 06:42 AM
I'm sorry? What about the whole of ESB and RotJ? Both Obi-Wan (in his ghost form) and Yoda would have had plenty of time to explain to Luke about Midichlorians; it only took a few seconds for Qui-Gon to give Anakin a basic explanation in TPM. Something that fundamental to the study of the Force should have been explained onscreen.
Yes, they are. If they tell you how to sense 'the will of the Force', and Old Republic Jedi carried Midichlorian-testing equipment with them wherever they went, clearly they are important. Luke is going to set up a new Jedi Order, which presumably means he'll have to know as much about the Force as possible - it makes no sense not to tell him about Midichlorians, especially if they can help him find possible candidates for Jedi training.
- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
#19
Posted 28 April 2005 - 06:43 AM
This post has been edited by Nicholas_Skywalker: 28 April 2005 - 06:44 AM
#20
Posted 28 April 2005 - 06:44 AM
Nobody seemed to sense that Leia was incredibly strong in the force. Particularly Vader when he was in the same room as her. Vader senses that "the force is strong with this one" with Luke in ANH only when he is doing his utmost to kill him and almost certainly using the force himself in his efforts to do so.
Qui-Gon seems to feel that Anakin is indeed strong in the force if admittedly more from hearing of his podracing abilities and so forth more than anything else (Still he does no worse than those OT examples above). The midichlorian count gives us a definitive idea of just how strong in the force Anakin is ie more than Yoda, more than anyone who has ever existed, "off the scale" etc => Chosen One.
To me at least it works better than Qui-Gon reeling and passing out as if smacked across the head by the sheer force strength of Boy-Anakin. And it saves years of pointless "How strong in the force is Anakin REALLY?" threads on the net. Theoretically at least.
#22
Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:00 AM
Look, I don't know if you realise this, but the OT movies were made first -that's why they're referred to as the 'Original' Trilogy. Lucas should be writing the Prequels to fit in with the OT, not the other way round. And it still doesn't make sense for the explanation to be left out of the OT; if Qui-Gon could do it for Anakin then Yoda or Obi-Wan should have done it for Luke. I'm talking about what would make a coherent story, not what the audience 'needs' to see. Yes, two explanations would be redundant - but that's why the whole idea should have been left out in the first place.
Qui-Gon seems to feel that Anakin is indeed strong in the force if admittedly more from hearing of his podracing abilities and so forth more than anything else (Still he does no worse than those OT examples above). The midichlorian count gives us a definitive idea of just how strong in the force Anakin is ie more than Yoda, more than anyone who has ever existed, "off the scale" etc => Chosen One.
To me at least it works better than Qui-Gon reeling and passing out as if smacked across the head by the sheer force strength of Boy-Anakin. And it saves years of pointless "How strong in the force is Anakin REALLY?" threads on the net. Theoretically at least.
Vader had presumably met Leia before, and the other Jedi characters already knew she was Force-sensitive but were trying to keep it from Luke, so it makes sense that none of them would mention it. Besides, as you yourself point out, Qui-Gon had already sensed Anakin's strenth in the Force - so why would he have to 'measure' it using scientific equipment? He wouldn't need to be 'reeling and passing out'; all he'd need to do is mention that Anakin is stronger in the Force than anyone he's met before, and possibly take him to the Council for confirmation. There's no need for a 'definitive' measure of how strong he is; before the PT there was never any suggestion that the Force could somehow be quantified numerically.
- J m HofMarN on the Sand People
#23
Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:05 AM
That's a really good argument. However I don't believe Lucas ever intended to do ep 1/2/3 until recently.
As for the force running in families that dosnt need to be explained by midichlorians, and indeed is not. midichlorians, being organisms, would not be transmitted from father to son in great quantity. That's just like saying "well, I have lice, so my son will have lice."
It's a simple matter of fate. The Skywalkers are important people and are fated to be strong with the force. This is mystical and cool and we can make up explanations about them having a genetic predisposition to it if we want but we dont have to.
The same thing happens with witches. A lot of shows have witchcraft running in families but they don't discuss how tiny microbes make people able to use magic do they? Of course not cuz that would be stupid!
And yes Midichlorians were necessary for the whole prophecy thing. But the prophecy was stupid. I could do without both of them. Or at least with a reworking of the prophecy.
What if the prophecy had been that Anakin would one day betray and murder the Jedi, so Mace and Yoda sent little annie into exile, where Obi Wan took him on later, only to have Anakin meet Mace and Yoda and fulfill the prophecy? Now that would be clever and it would be kind of an interesting twist that could carry through the movies and would make sense.
Or hell, why not just slightly alter the prophecy? Say that someone with the name skywalker would vanquish the Sith and save the galaxy? Then Obi Wan decides that Anakin is the one and trains him. That would at least be less confusing. And if this prophecy was so damn important why was it ignored in the OT along with the midichlorians?
However the current prophecy makes no sense whatsoever and treats Anakin as some sort of hero, as if he's supposed to be the hero of the six movie series. Luke is the hero. Anakin is the villain we're supposed to sympathize with. Lucas has mixed up his roles and thats caused a ton of problems.
This post has been edited by J m HofMarN: 28 April 2005 - 07:11 AM
Quote
#24
Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:11 AM
#25
Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:13 AM
I have no time for people who like the prequels and I honestly think there's something wrong with their tastes and quite possibly, their mental conditions.
When I came to this forum well over a year ago, it was a haven of sanity, a place where we could get away from that rubbish. And I've always found this, ALWAYS...
When there are no prequel gushers (Jariten excepted of course) on the forum, we have intelligent and civilised discussions. But when we DO have gushers, the forum just becomes chaotic. Thousands of new pointless threads are made, every second post contains the phrase "... is badass" and I can't stand it.
I know I've been warned to calm down time and time again. I know I shouldn't take it personally and I should try to control my temper. But I have a low tolerance for stupidity and whenever I encounter it, my blood boils... more out of frustration than anything else.
And yeah, I guess I'll get another message from Chefelf or Civilian about this.
#26
Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:15 AM
I have no time for people who like the prequels and I honestly think there's something wrong with their tastes and quite possibly, their mental conditions.
When I came to this forum well over a year ago, it was a haven of sanity, a place where we could get away from that rubbish. And I've always found this, ALWAYS...
When there are no prequel gushers (Jariten excepted of course) on the forum, we have intelligent and civilised discussions. But when we DO have gushers, the forum just becomes chaotic. Thousands of new pointless threads are made, every second post contains the phrase "... is badass" and I can't stand it.
I know I've been warned to calm down time and time again. I know I shouldn't take it personally and I should try to control my temper. But I have a low tolerance for stupidity and whenever I encounter it, my blood boils... more out of frustration than anything else.
And yeah, I guess I'll get another message from Chefelf or Civilian about this.
I know how you feel, JYAMG.
Wanting solid evidence of a person's abilities is one thing, but undermining the philosophical value of the Force was just wrong.
This post has been edited by Lord Aquaman: 28 April 2005 - 07:16 AM
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
#27
Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:23 AM
I have no time for people who like the prequels and I honestly think there's something wrong with their tastes and quite possibly, their mental conditions.
When I came to this forum well over a year ago, it was a haven of sanity, a place where we could get away from that rubbish. And I've always found this, ALWAYS...
When there are no prequel gushers (Jariten excepted of course) on the forum, we have intelligent and civilised discussions. But when we DO have gushers, the forum just becomes chaotic. Thousands of new pointless threads are made, every second post contains the phrase "... is badass" and I can't stand it.
I know I've been warned to calm down time and time again. I know I shouldn't take it personally and I should try to control my temper. But I have a low tolerance for stupidity and whenever I encounter it, my blood boils... more out of frustration than anything else.
And yeah, I guess I'll get another message from Chefelf or Civilian about this.
Ive been going to these boards looking at them for a while and I have seen no so called "intelligent conversations" usaully all I see is stuff like: lucas sucks the prequals suck wow it would be cool if lucas died. Its like that every fricken day! Is it all your brain is capable of, midnless bashing? Tell me are you of the mindless dopes in shchool that picked on kids younger and smaller on them for no reason? because you certanly sound like one. And hey maybe im sick of your crap about bashing and im just trying to make an intelligent arguments but you cant take it.
#28
Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:23 AM
Why is this place being flooded with gushers all of a sudden?
Let us bitch about midichlorians in peace!
I'm sorry. Its just that I feel that I have a duty to spread wisdom and understanding wherever ignorance is found.
#29
Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:25 AM
The fact that you don't see the stupidity of the midichlorians is very sad.
And darthsmash, you're the one living in ignorance, not us. We see the stupidity of the prequels for what they are. You and Nick Skywalker don't.
Perhaps this page just isn't for the two of you.
I'd like a qui-gon jinn please with an obi-wan to go.
#30
Posted 28 April 2005 - 07:28 AM
And darthsmash, you're the one living in ignorance, not us. We see the stupidity of the prequels for what they are. You and Nick Skywalker don't.
Perhaps this page just isn't for the two of you.
hmm so your right and most people are wrong. And the mental conditions, hahaha! so your saying millions of people in the world are sufferning from mental illness because they enjoy a movie. THe last 2 prequals have been a huge succes in the cinema's and on dvd. Are they all mental the ones that watch and enjoy them?