[TK-421]

I've been lurking here for a while, reading up on a lot of posts — but this post prompted me to register so I could reply. My "reply" got so long I thought I would just start a new topic. The author of that post and I are coming from the same place, kind of. I also needed to work out in writing what I had envisioned (based off of the OT "hints") what I expected to see in the PT. Partially for freinds who say about the prequels "it's Star Wars -- they have lightsabers, it's awesome!" and partly for myself to work out just exactly why I have such a hatred for the prequels.

I totally agree with the OP that Yoda should never have been in the PT — he should have been this almost mythical character until ESB. The prequels ruin his reveal. It would be similar to the OT where Jabba was saved for ROTJ. Yoda should be mentioned throughout the PT, and only in ESB do we finally see him. The PT ruined the payoff (just as the SE OT ruined the Jabba payoff in ROTJ).

I also agree that Anakin should be much older throughout the PT, and in fact if we want to watch him age, Hayden C would have been great for him as a whiny kid, although the moody crap would have to go. I always envisioned an actor such as Clive Owen being the primary Vader, and like the OP I envisioned the audience seeing Vader in his prime — the fall to Vader would have happened much earlier, perhaps even during the 2nd film. To me, the entire PT as-is could have basically been the first movie!

I remember seeing Batman Begins, with the early scenes of Bruce Wayne training in Raz Algul's (sp?) mountain fortress and thinking "this is how Episode I should have started" -- a cocky Obi-Wan training in non-lightsaber Jedi ways in some partially snow-covered remote mountain Jedi outpost. Big Conan-style log temples — "Zen vikings". He needs to be trained by Yoda here, but somehow Yoda cannot be revealed. This is tricky and I haven't figured it out yet.

I also agree that the Jedi are not cops (or friggin ambassadors or whatever). They should be outside the system, someone you call when other methods aren't working. They always seem to be around, yet are very mysterious to the general public.

Anyways, what follows is just a collection of random ideas I have been collecting. I am no writer, let alone a screenplay writer and what good would it do to rewite these anyways, what's done is done. Rather, my goal was to get into writing what us OT geeks really wanted to see, something we could point to and say "That's what the Star Wars prequels should have been like".

I don't really have these completed, and it's more of an outline of ideas, a general framework for the storyline. Something more in line with not only what was hinted at in the OT, but what us as fans were envisioning. This is a skeleton to be fleshed out.

Here goes…

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE EXISTING PT:

• First, in the PT as-is, there is no hinting at events in the past; this was some of the best stuff from the OT -- imagining what the Clone Wars were all about for example. There is no allusion to the past or history in the PT to build a sense of depth and scale to the world/galaxy. Lame.

• Almost all the characters in the PT should have been original -- the whole idea of shrinking the SW universe so everyone knows everyone is lame beyond belief. This has been discussed ad nauseum in these forums, so I don't need to expand on this here. Obi-Wan & Vader are really the only characters we need to have from the OT, period.

• My original conception of Anakin's turn was that the Dark Side was slowly turning and corrupting his mind, like some kind of drug or virus. The Emperor saw the possibility of turning someone who was already on the brink before the Emperor was aware of him. The PT should have been about Obi-Wan's failure in training Vader, so the OT has a redemption for him through setting Luke on the path of the Force.

• Of course, the Force is still just mystical energy, no explanation needed (although I think Lucas was trying to show how something scientifically known could turn into myth; however, 20 years is not enough time for this to happen). The PT should be about a Jedi learning the ways of the Force, and the dangers of the Dark Side. Not about being manipulated by a politician! Sheesh.

• In general, I envision Vader slowly turning from man to machine, and we would have seen him gradually having to add more and more machine parts, maybe even a rudimentary breather for Ep. III. As his fall progresses, he loses more and more of his humanity until he is totally gone (and this would have happened probably at the end of Ep. II)

• Lightsabers should be used only when two (or more) main characters have showdowns, not every time a Jedi is onscreen. I was waiting for one of them to pop open a beer bottle with a lightsaber they had them out so much in the GL PT.

• I have left out subplots of the idea of a Queen (which I think should in fact be included), and agree with all that she should be a real queen (not an elected Senator Queen, whatever that is in the PT) and live on Alderaan (of course). Alderaan in fact should probably be the seat of the growing Rebellion.

STORY CONCEPTS:

Episode I:

The Rebellion is already underway, but small. It’s not officially “the Rebellion”. The Jedi are not yet involved. Grand Moff Tarkin is perhaps in this movie, maybe even the main bad guy (besides the Emperor/Palpatine, who is not yet the Emperor, and also not yet introduced).

Perhaps the Rebellion the result of forced labor into building the Death Star? Or perhaps money/resources taken from the people - it’s finally the last straw of oppression? No one knows the actual Death Star is being built, but the money for helping some planet in need is taken by the proto-Empire, and is the last straw in a series of underhanded events. Anakin should be part of the Rebellion for Ep. I & II. Prequels II & III are about the rise of the Rebellion and the emergence of the Empire as "The Empire" we know.

Obi Wan is sent on a mission by the Jedi Elders. Obi-Wan’s mission is ninja-like -- not diplomatic, not a battle. Or perhaps his “ninja mission” is accidental - sent on another errand, forced to land on the "Anakin Planet" (the planet Anakin is from, which is NOT Tattooine), discovers some hijinks, Anakin brought along (or just part of the coincidence - Obi-Wan needs his services somehow. Perhaps this is where Anakin sees some bad-ass Obi-Wan Jedi moves and “converts”? I almost feel like Ep. I should be on the tail end of the Clone Wars, so we don't actually experience them fully. Obi-Wan's mission could be something where the Jedi sense an underhanded danger in the Clone Wars battles that the proto-Empire is using to take over control (which of course, they are).

Anakin is a starfighter mechanic, about 19 years old. As a mechanic, he's also a pilot (obviously a really good one -- check!). Anakin repairs ships for the growing Rebellion, but only for the money. Rebellion ships in the OT (X-Wings etc.) are leftovers from a previous war, like old planes from WWII or something. They are former military ships used by the Galactic Senate, now obsolete by the “Marshall Law proto-Empire”, who needs new ships - Tie Fighters & Star Destroyers are created during the PT and would see usage no later than the start of Ep. III. In Ep. I & II, the proto-Empire is still using X-Wings as their main fighter ships -- this makes it ever more cool that the X-Wings are used to bring down the Death Star in Ep. IV (i.e. - the Empire is tabbed with it's own knife as it were). The cool thing here would be to have a proto-Stormtrooper in an X-Wing early on in the film -- the audience would be thinking to themselves "Holy crap! What's going on here". Awesome. The OT Rebellion uses the discarded "junk" ships of the proto-Empire.

Anakin lives with a girlfriend, she’s already pregnant (he doesn’t know, but the audience is let in on it, subtly). Cocky, self-absorbed. Lives with his step-brother (Owen). Orphan, does not know his parents. Has no desire to be a Jedi - never heard of them; in fact he’s much like Han Solo and sees it all as a bit silly, until an event that changes his mind & world-view makes him loyal to Obi-Wan - I picture Obi-Wan stopping a huge out of control spaceship in an action sequence, but maybe not good enough. Not some simple lightsaber moves or a throwaway Jedi Mind trick though. Here the true power of the Jedi is shown for the first time in the Star Wars stories. This lives up to what OT fans imagined the Jedi to be.

We don't need to see Anakin's girlfriend actually have the kids, or hide them or anything. It's just not necessary. We know Anakin has kids, that's enough. Done. There could perhaps be hints of Own Lars hinting at moving to Tattooine here. Anakin is living with Lars, so when he takes off with Obi-Wan on the "damn fool idealistic crusade", the girl is with the Lars' and moves with them. Some subtle hints here are fine. No sledgehammer needed.

(Honestly, the Owen/Anakin angle is kind of weak and probably needs reworked, but leaving it in for now)

Somehow Obi-Wan is exiled from the Jedis after is a big proto-rebellion battle where Obi-Wan’s training of Anakin is revealed — Anakin saves Obi-Wan and is the hero, Anakin's Jedi moves reveal Obi-Wan’s training. Jedi Elders are not happy as hints of Dark Side techniques are evident. This leads to Obi-Wan's "exile" or "probation".

Anakin's skills as a pilot are shown here during this space battle.

Proto-Rebellion battle: proto-Empire finally oversteps it’s legal boundaries, some sort of attack or something. Perhaps proto-Emipre is some sort of “Marshall Law” state, and they take advantage of the temporary power.

A Sith is revealed during a battle; "Darth X" for now. Darth X is sent to oversee things, just as Vader in the OT checks up on the progress of the Death Star, battle during Hoth, etc. Darth X will be the face of the enemy to the Jedi/Obi-Wan throughout the prequels. There is no major showdown between this Darth X and Obi-Wan (or Anakin), but they do fight. At some point during this fight, Anakin loses a body part or two; the process towards him becoming a machine has begun. Each body part lost is a result of misuse of the Force (Dark Side powers). In other words, when he uses the Dark Side powers, he cannot control them and the enemy has an "opening" for an attack.

Obi-Wan also sees here for the first time exactly how strong the Force is with Anakin, and is a bit scared that maybe he made a mistake. We need to see Obi-Wan as a super bad-ass Jedi up to the point, but here Anakin is exponentially more powerful, if only for some brief moments. Anakin should almost have some sort of brief uncontrolled side-effect burst (when using a Dark Side power) of something a bit scary to Obi-Wan. Perhaps a hallucinogenic "bending of reality" (I'm thinking Neo at the end of 'The Matrix' as a very loose reference).

This über-display of power both scares off Darth X & saves Obi-Wan's life.

Lost body parts can be lungs, eyes, etc. -- not necessarily a hand, which is expected. He should be going bionic/RoboCop. Darth X is not killed here.

Episode Two:

Obi-Wan is now exiled from the Jedis (or on probation). Continues to train Anakin, they are now fighting with the proto-rebellion. Obi-Wan & Anakin have a closer friendship because of the exile. Both are now "outsiders" or unwanted. We are shown this during battles and such. We need to really believe these two guys are best friends. Here Obi-Wan's ties with the rebellion are being formed. Perhaps the Bail Organa angle can be worked in here.

At some point Anakin and Obi-Wan face off again against Darth X. During this battle, Anakin once again loses more of his humanity, and we see this figuratively and literally as he loses more body parts (once again due to using Dark Side powers during this battle). We should start seeing some familiar traits creep in -- perhaps a wearble breathing apparatus, nothing like a helmet but something that assists his breathing. He should now have more visually obvious armor/mechanical parts at this point. Doesn't have to be black in color either... He's in metamorphosis.

Anakin is caught by the proto-Empire during a battle, feels betrayed by Obi-Wan somehow. Obi-Wan escapes, Darth X brings Anakin in to Palpatine. Darth X has obviously already brought Anakin's power to the attention of Palp after the first fight with Obi-Wan & Anakin.

The Emperor (Palpatine) is introduced, and we learn more about what is really going on with the proto-Empire. It should be very simple: perhaps the Clone Wars were secretly started by the proto-Empire using mercenaries against the general population of the Galaxy (the Clone Wars) as a pretext to enable "Marshall Law" with Palapatine as the leader. We don't need to see it all happen, or learn the details -- no one in the audience cares. It's brute force, not political intrigue. The Empire should be fully in power no later than the beginning of Ep. III.

Palapatine hints that Obi-Wan killed Anakins parents. Palp is torturing/brainwashing Anakin as the OP mentioned, to break down his "good side" and get him to use the Dark Side powers. Perhaps Obi-Wan actually did kill his parents? Or at least his actions led to circumstances where his parents ended up dying?

Obi-Wan should be a super bad-ass - his meek demeanor in the OT is because of his failure with Anakin. He completely doubts himself after the prequels, and in the OT it’s a way for him to redeem himself. Obi-Wan is brash and makes mistakes. Ep. IV in particular needs to be partially about his redemption.

Perhaps the big reveal this episode is that the Jedi Order was in fact responsible for Anakin being an orphan - he was taken from his parents by the Jedi order because the Force was too great in him, and unstable. Anakin was actually exiled. I'm not sure this idea is the greatest though. But somehow, Anakin's rage against the Jedis is brought on during the torture/brainwashing scene. The Jedis are shown to have made a poor judgement affecting Anakin's fate, and it sets off Anakin big time here.

This needs to be real heavy, as this is in fact where Anakin becomes Vader. He will now hunt down and destroy the Jedi order. And Vader does not yet have the classic "Vader" armor. He will however get his "armor" and bionics upgraded with this allegiance to Palp/Emperor/Empire, and it will be black in color from here on out.

Episode Three:

Obi-Wan, still in Jedi exile, is off on a solo mission to save Anakin from the proto-Empire (not knowing it has already become "The Empire"). He does not yet know about Anakin becoming Vader. Obi-Wan finds that he cannot sense Anakin via the Force, however he does find himself sensing a very dark presence in the Force (which is of course Vader, and Obi-Wan intuits this but doesn't want to believe).

Obi-Wan may have some "bounty hunter types" with him -- at the least they are non-Jedi, perhaps just members of the proto-Rebellion. And NOT Boba Fett/Jango Fett or any other Fett if they are indeed bounty hunters!

From here, Obi-Wan (and the Jedi Elders) sense trouble for other Jedi throughout the Galaxy (similar to the 'thousand voices crying out in pain' from Ep. IV). Now officially teaming with the proto-Rebellion, they head out to discover what is happening. Here they find themselves on the trail of Vader's "hunt & destroy the Jedi" campaign. Palp is now the (self-appointed) Emperor, and has given Vader control over his new troops.

The "hunt & destroy the Jedis" campaign takes up the bulk of the film, and while I always imagined it taking years, I don't think it's realistic in this scenario. At the least, they aren't all in one place and it is a multi-planet attack. Vader is not be present at all the battles. TIE Fighters & Star Destroyers are now officially "christened" for launch by Vader, and put used for battle.

Perhaps when Anakin actually becomes Vader, only then does the Empire come into existence. Perhaps Vader uses the "Marshall Law proto-Empire" -- as it's first show of domination -- to hunt down & destroy the Jedi Order. Vader is the one to push the "Marshall Law" Empire to the full Empire we all know and hate. In this way, his revenge against Obi-Wan/Jedis is the trigger for the emergence of the Empire (not some stupid vote as GL has it in the PT). Obi-Wan feels almost personally responsible for creating the Empire by his failure to train Vader properly when he was warned not to.

Palp set up the dominoes, but Vader pushes over the first brick.

Eventually Obi-Wan & Vader meet, and have a showdown. After this battle, Vader will indeed need to become the "full armor Vader" as Obi-Wan during this lightsaber battle ends up causing more physical damage.

Vader's "hunt & destroy Jedi" mission is not complete at the end of the film, and in fact we end the film by seeing the Jedi go into hiding — Obi-Wan to Tattooine, Yoda to Dagobah (although we only see his ship land, nit the character).

THOUGHTS

Obviously, action sequences, supporting characters and such need to be included, but at this point I just wanted to get the overall storyline together. I realize a lot has been left out, but I have been (lazily) working on this for some time and at this point I just want to kind of get it out there for some feedback.

I kind of see the prequels as less about the fall of Anakin and more about the failure of Obi-Wan — or at least about both, equally. This gives the Obi-Wan storyline in the OT much more weight, and allows for his redemption (in setting Luke along the path of the Force/Jedi).

It's amazing how rought this all seems when reading back over it, and the work it took just to get to this point!

[DoccGero]

I'll compliment your treatment of Obi-Wan's character from a very Alpha Male, powerful Jedi to be reckoned with, to a very reserved, wise old man from the desert in the OT.

There are other elements I like in this, especially Anakin very gradually recieving his injuries to the body (instead of all at once like in ROTS)... a friend and I always thought that this is what would happen to Anakin... he was in so many battles that as time went on, more and more cybernetic enhancements had to replace his organs/appendages. Also, not only his body becomes hardened by battle, but also his mind... and I think this results in a PLAUSIBLE transformation to Vader. He's already past his prime, nearly stoic, and like I said... just hardened in general, which lends itself greatly to his evil actions later. He views the galaxy with such objectivity, that by the time the Jedi conspiracy against him is revealed (displacing him from his family), he doesn't have too much compassion and good nature to push aside anyway. I'd have the "big reveal" stand as one of the few emotional experiences Anakin has had in a long time, therefore, it carries much more consequence. Afterward, his humanity is completely buried for the next two and a half decades.

That's just my spin on things. TK-421, if I can be of any service in writing these scripts or novels, let me know. If they are of great quality, and have enough exposure to Original Trilogy enthusiasts... then their reason for existing will be to act as canon for many fans let down by what Lucas gave us in his PT.

This post has been edited by DoccGero: 06 January 2009 - 12:48 AM

[TK-421]

I'll compliment your treatment of Obi-Wan's character from a very Alpha Male, powerful Jedi to be reckoned with, to a very reserved, wise old man from the desert in the OT.

There are other elements I like in this, especially Anakin very gradually recieving his injuries to the body (instead of all at once like in ROTS)... a friend and I always thought that this is what would happen to Anakin... he was in so many battles that as time went on, more and more cybernetic enhancements had to replace his organs/appendages. Also, not only his body becomes hardened by battle, but also his mind... and I think this results in a PLAUSIBLE transformation to Vader. He's already past his prime, nearly stoic, and like I said... just hardened in general, which lends itself greatly to his evil actions later. He views the galaxy with such objectivity, that by the time the Jedi conspiracy against him is revealed (displacing him from his family), he doesn't have too much compassion and good nature to push aside anyway. I'd have the "big reveal" stand as one of the few emotional experiences Anakin has had in a long time, therefore, it carries much more consequence. Afterward, his humanity is completely buried for the next two and a half decades.

That's just my spin on things. TK-421, if I can be of any service in writing these scripts or novels, let me know. If they are of great quality, and have enough exposure to Original Trilogy enthusiasts... then their reason for existing will be to act as canon for many fans let down by what Lucas gave us in his PT.

Thanks for the kind words DoccGero. I don't know if I have it in me to actually write these out as actual scripts or novels, but I do want to polish the storyline up a bit, add the intertwining subplots and such.

For the most part, I just needed to get this out of my head and in writing so I could sort out my thoughts and frustrations on what was offered by Lucas as the Prequels.

I recently read the excellent "The Making of Star Wars" book, and the interesting thing is that the prequels seem more in line with what Lucas had originally intended with Star Wars, before his wiser friends and fellow filmmakers helped nudge him in the right direction.

Anyways, I like your thoughts on the storyline as well — I think we have a similar vision for what we thought Vader would be portrayed as in the Prequels.

[Egan Snow]

Amazing work on the rewrite! Very inspirational. Do you know of any more recent work taken in this pursuit?