[Dr Lecter]

Islam is a shit religion

Nice of you to be so open minded.

[civilian_number_two]

It’s not racist or a lie to point that out it’s simply a fact. Your comment is a perfect example of how political correctness has made it “racist” to make any criticism of immigration whatsoever even if your criticism raises valid points. I realise it doesn’t help that such things are usually said by the worst kind of idiot as excuses for their bigotry.

I wasn't being PC; I was pointing out that the statements made by chyld, that immigrants are not learning the language, that they are scamming welfare, and that they are trying to turn their adoptive country into their home country. You can cite anecdotes from your own life as well, but again I will say that this is the criticism that has been levelled at every immigrant group. And yet these groups tend to learn the language (not the older ones as much, but frequently you can catch them trying), get jobs (I don't even know what an illegal taxi cab tout is, so maybe you have troubles there that are unheard of in Vancouver), and after a period of trying to make a little India/Italy/whatever, they eventually are wearign blue jeans and watching television like everyone else. I'm not being PC; I'm just also not being reactionary.

Still and all, I'd like our population growth to be less based on immigration and more on having babies. So please, have more babies.

[Snake Logan]

Firstly there are immigrants in Wales, secondly show me proof that the "welsh species" evolved into sentience on that spot and I'll accept I'm wrong. Yes the Welsh family groups go further back in history than English or Scottish ones but they still came there from somewhere else at some point. The Silures came to Wales from Iberia (ancient Spain).

All I know is that the original Britons got pushed back into what is now known as Wales when the Saxons landed. I mean… is there an original ‘species’ in Britain?

[Casual]

I wasn't being PC; I was pointing out that the statements made by chyld, that immigrants are not learning the language, that they are scamming welfare, and that they are trying to turn their adoptive country into their home country. You can cite anecdotes from your own life as well, but again I will say that this is the criticism that has been levelled at every immigrant group. And yet these groups tend to learn the language (not the older ones as much, but frequently you can catch them trying), get jobs (I don't even know what an illegal taxi cab tout is, so maybe you have troubles there that are unheard of in Vancouver), and after a period of trying to make a little India/Italy/whatever, they eventually are wearign blue jeans and watching television like everyone else. I'm not being PC; I'm just also not being reactionary.

Still and all, I'd like our population growth to be less based on immigration and more on having babies. So please, have more babies.

Taxi touts are the thugs who bully people in airports into their unlicensed and uninsured cabs and then usually rob them, I would be surprised if you don’t have something similar in Canada but they are an especially large problem at Heathrow. Anyway you say I'm reactionary but doesn’t that just mean that I’m coming to a conclusion based on the evidence that’s put in front of me? If so then yes I am being "reactionary" and I admit find it difficult sometimes to ignore the downsides of mass immigration when I'm so rarely if ever presented with the benefits. OK Chyld made the basic mistake of over generalising and stamping 100% of immigrants with the benefit sponge stamp but that doesn’t means there wasn’t some truth to what he said. He was also perfectly right that the west are the only ones that tolerate this if I went to Afghanistan and said I wanted English law to be introduced they would call me a foreign dog crusader and cut my head off. While I'm not saying the Taliban have the right attitude perhaps completely submitting to every single whim and desire of the immigrant minority isn’t the best idea either. I mean its hard to argue that there’s no favouritism after I read in the news a BA employee was banned from wearing a one inch large crucifix under her uniform in case it "caused offence" despite being a staunch atheist I felt myself sympathising with her because of the clear double standard. Tell a Muslim woman to remove her far more obvious head scarf and you'll have protests, death threats and jihads. I know this because that’s exactly what happened when Jack Straw requested a Muslim interviewer remove her head scarf so he could better communicate with her. We’re being asked to change our culture and ways while theirs are apparently untouchable. To be honest the more I hear your argument the more I wish I lived in Canada because compared to the UK it's clearly utopia.

To be honest I don’t think we need to have a growing population we have a small Island and the current size of our population is proving to be unsustainable. Immigration as a fix for a lower birth rate is a solution for a problem that isn’t a problem at all.

This post has been edited by Casual: 10 February 2008 - 05:00 PM

[Casual]

All I know is that the original Britons got pushed back into what is now known as Wales when the Saxons landed. I mean… is there an original ‘species’ in Britain?

No the British Isles have been repeatedly conquered, colonised and resettled by various ethnic groups over the past 10,000 years. The Romans came and wiped out most of the original welsh tribes more than a thousand years before the Saxons came and as I said Spanish settlers did the same to the previous inhabitants before that so the people there at that time were not the original inhabitants. I could endlessly repeat my point that the people of Britain have been conquered and the lands repopulated by the invaders but I can’t be bothered typing the whole of Britain’s recorded history here and I suspect that most wouldn’t be bothered reading it.

[civilian_number_two]

To be honest I don’t think we need to have a growing population we have a small Island and the current size of our population is proving to be unsustainable. Immigration as a fix for a lower birth rate is a solution for a problem that isn’t a problem at all.

PC Liberalism has hurt Christianity, sure; here in Vancouver we openly celebrate "Chinese New Year," a clearly racial holiday, while we undergo the usual "Happy Holidays" bullshit at Christmas. This sort of nonsense is minor social stuff, however. As a wealthy white male, I don't suffer at the hands of the law. I don't wish I had it easy like all them scamming immigrants. The term "reactionary" doesn't mean what you think it does.

And yes, I don't think we should need population growth to sustain our economy, but there we are. Our countries are run by lawyers and economists whose best ideas about Capitalism are that every company should enjoy a growth in wealth every single year. If this fails to happen, like it or not we lead to a recession. The way to fight it is to reduce the price of production (foreign outsourcing) and to sell to more people. With foreigners unable to afford more product, this means immigrating more folks to earn wages comparabe to our own and selling the prouducts to them. It's an untenable situation, and it will eventually collapse, but that is contemporary consumerism. It is a reality acknowledged by your government, so if you want fewer immigrants, you need to have more babies.

PS: I've been to Heathrow and I never saw anything like the taxi thugs you describe. In Vancouver such endemic robbery would be handled by our effective police state. Probably the thugs would be arrested off the record and beaten to death near the river delta. The police woiuld split the money amongst themselves.

This post has been edited by civilian_number_two: 11 February 2008 - 05:05 PM
Reason for edit:: added a nonsense PS

[Jordan]

Nice of you to be so open minded.

Blahaha, the usual comeback. How about this, I read the book it's short (english version so it doesn't count for going to heaven points, two weeks after 9/11 muslims at my school were handing out the quran in english to people and trying smooth over things, they also had a bake sale with persian and arabic cuisine), I've seen documenteries on it, I see world events unfold. Final opinion- it's shit.

Stick that in your open mind and smoke it.

This site gives a quick break down. Many other sites are like it. I highly doubt the Quran is so 'open to interpretation' that all these sites are wrong. The only people who bother defend it are the Muslims that dwell on the peaceful chapters, but don't necessarly rebuke the violent ones, they go on about some bullshit how war and killing heathens is a spiritual fight, come on! It's like when that republican got caught sending dirty tapes to office pages so he came out and said a priest raped him when he was young. It's a bullshit line used in desperation.

Sura 9 treats of the campaign to Tebuk (A. H. 9). It opens with the "release" promulgated at the pilgrimage of the same year and declares the antagonism of Islam to all other religions. All but Muslims are excluded from Mecca and the rites of pilgrimage. Idolaters are threatened with slaughter and slavery. War is declared against Jews and Christians until they are humbled and pay tribute. This sura is called "the crusade chapter", and in the early campaigns was often read on the field before battle.

http://www.newadvent...then/08692a.htm

This post has been edited by Jordan: 11 February 2008 - 09:18 PM

[Casual]

PC Liberalism has hurt Christianity, sure; here in Vancouver we openly celebrate "Chinese New Year," a clearly racial holiday, while we undergo the usual "Happy Holidays" bullshit at Christmas. This sort of nonsense is minor social stuff, however. As a wealthy white male, I don't suffer at the hands of the law. I don't wish I had it easy like all them scamming immigrants. The term "reactionary" doesn't mean what you think it does.

And yes, I don't think we should need population growth to sustain our economy, but there we are. Our countries are run by lawyers and economists whose best ideas about Capitalism are that every company should enjoy a growth in wealth every single year. If this fails to happen, like it or not we lead to a recession. The way to fight it is to reduce the price of production (foreign outsourcing) and to sell to more people. With foreigners unable to afford more product, this means immigrating more folks to earn wages comparabe to our own and selling the prouducts to them. It's an untenable situation, and it will eventually collapse, but that is contemporary consumerism. It is a reality acknowledged by your government, so if you want fewer immigrants, you need to have more babies.

PS: I've been to Heathrow and I never saw anything like the taxi thugs you describe. In Vancouver such endemic robbery would be handled by our effective police state. Probably the thugs would be arrested off the record and beaten to death near the river delta. The police woiuld split the money amongst themselves.

I know exactly what you meant when you called me reactionary the point I was trying to make was that I'm not like that I'm simply pointing out the real world problems that immigrants cause in daily life to those of us that have to live with them. I accept you’re right that immigrations is a side effect of a broken system propped up by my own government but that doesn’t mean I have to bend over and like it. Yes the idea of making lots of babies’ sounds fun but to be honest in the long run a few recessions would be less harmful than a gigantic unsustainable population and all the problems that come with it.

PS: Damn I wish I lived in Canada it sounds like my kind of place. They are there obviously they don’t offer their services to every single one of the millions of people that pass through the airport, but rest assured that if you stand in the terminal with a scared and confused look on your face with lots of expensive looking baggage for long enough one of them will come along and "help" you. Ironically enough they tend to prey on people who don’t speak English well.

[civilian_number_two]

As I see it, new immigrants take jobs the locals don't want. I don't know anyone who wishes he could be a cab driver or a security guard or a pizza delivery guy. Establisged immigrants learn the language and become a part fot he society. I don't see the "real world problems caused by immigrants in daily life." If as you say the taxi touts are only robbing other immigarnts or tourists who didn't even have the goddamned courtesy to learn the language beofre travelling, well, then they're part of the solution, right?

[J m HofMarN]

The only people who bother defend it are the Muslims that dwell on the peaceful chapters, but don't necessarly rebuke the violent ones, they go on about some bullshit how war and killing heathens is a spiritual fight, come on! It's like when that republican got caught sending dirty tapes to office pages so he came out and said a priest raped him when he was young.

... Muslims who don't condemn passages in the Quran you don't like are like child molesters. Marvelous. Just marvelous. Also, am I misreading this:

" the Muslims that dwell on the peaceful chapters go on about some bullshit how war and killing heathens is a spiritual fight, come on!"

I can keep pointing out that the bible says all sorts of stuff like what the Quran says, but you'll just pass it off as usual, since only Islam is allowed to be criticized and itc ant be compared to other similiar religions and their other, similiar holy books.

We've been through that one before too so I guess I have no choice but to agree. Muslims are the devil, and immigrants ate my baby.

[Jordan]

I can keep pointing out that the bible says all sorts of stuff like what the Quran says, but you'll just pass it off as usual, since only Islam is allowed to be criticized and itc ant be compared to other similiar religions and their other, similiar holy books.

Do it. Find me passages by the apostles that directly sanction the things the quarn does.

Islam doesn't allow it's followers to critize it. It's forbiden. So it's up to us to do it.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 13 February 2008 - 03:03 AM

[Casual]

As I see it, new immigrants take jobs the locals don't want. I don't know anyone who wishes he could be a cab driver or a security guard or a pizza delivery guy. Establisged immigrants learn the language and become a part fot he society. I don't see the "real world problems caused by immigrants in daily life." If as you say the taxi touts are only robbing other immigarnts or tourists who didn't even have the goddamned courtesy to learn the language beofre travelling, well, then they're part of the solution, right?

Not really it's not the best advertisement for British tourism is it? "Come to England and be mugged/kidnapped before you set foot out of the airport!". Do you learn the language of every country you go on holiday to? I was only saying people who want to live and work here should learn English not tourists. The real world problems I'm talking about are things like the Brickston riots a few years back, the problem is not everyone is as open minded as you and some react violently to things they don’t understand. That’s a fact of life we have to accept and factor into immigration policy or it leads to bloodshed down the line.

Horfman where did I say I blame Immigrants for eating my babies? This is my point make any criticism of immigration and suddenly you’re Adolf Stalin.

[Spoon Poetic]

Do it. Find me passages by the apostles that directly sanction the things the quarn does.

Islam doesn't allow it's followers to critize it. It's forbiden. So it's up to us to do it.

If someone else doesn't do this by tonight I hope I remember to. I believe it was Peter who was pretty anti-women.

Also, I really don't think it's fair that Jordan gets to disregard more than HALF of his Holy book but he doesn't believe any Muslims disregard the scattered violent passages of the Koran.

Oh, and I think there's a couple passages in the NT where Jesus said he didn't come to destroy the old law - therefore it should still be being followed - but I'm not really sure on that meaning at this moment in time, I'll have to research that again before I use it to argue. But I'm putting it up here in case anyone else wants to jump on that before I have the time to.


As far as immigrants go, I don't care, I like immigration and people of other cultures adding to our diversity - I'm just cheesed that thousands of illegals get the benefits of citizens' tax dollars, but they don't have to pay taxes, even when they get to be pretty financially stable. The way illegals can stay illegal so easily in this country and the benefits of staying illegal makes for not a whole lot of motivation for some people to get citizenship or a visa.

This post has been edited by Spoon Poetic: 13 February 2008 - 08:52 AM

[Simperin' Fool]

Also, I really don't think it's fair that Jordan gets to disregard more than HALF of his Holy book but he doesn't believe any Muslims disregard the scattered violent passages of the Koran.

To be fair, Muslims who do disregard those parts are labeled as infidels, because taking the words in the Qur'an at anything less than face value is a capital crime, or something like that.

And they're not exactly "scattered", either; peaceful passages that haven't been abrogated (Made obsolete by newer passages) are a bit more difficult to find.

Not to say that this makes other contemporary religions superior, I still have major problems with most of them, but there is truth to what Jordan says.

[Jordan]

If someone else doesn't do this by tonight I hope I remember to. I believe it was Peter who was pretty anti-women.

Also, I really don't think it's fair that Jordan gets to disregard more than HALF of his Holy book but he doesn't believe any Muslims disregard the scattered violent passages of the Koran.

Oh, and I think there's a couple passages in the NT where Jesus said he didn't come to destroy the old law - therefore it should still be being followed - but I'm not really sure on that meaning at this moment in time, I'll have to research that again before I use it to argue. But I'm putting it up here in case anyone else wants to jump on that before I have the time to.

Oh spoon. As a Christian yourself (You made the claim ages ago) shouldn't you have any understanding of the bible? I didn't dismiss half the bible, I simply don't acknowledge it in my daily life, nobody does. I barely acknowledge NT in my daily life, but at least I have a grasp of what it says. I don't go around sending menstrating women out of my apartment building until they are done. You have zero concept of mosaic law, a Jewish Law, for Jews, 1000's of years ago. This isn't the first time you've brought this up.

Let's hear all of Peter's anti women speech, is it the idea that women shouldn't head a church? But any how, go find the Quranesque passage that preach violence, death, or even converstion for any group of people.

Your quest for 50/50 fairness in all things is so PC and gay. Why can't you admit that Islam is a shit religion? More shit that Christianity. If Paul's one anti women comment, whatever the hell that means, sticks to your mind, how do you manage to miss verse after verse of violent and mysoginistic passages in the quarn.

This post has been edited by Jordan: 13 February 2008 - 12:36 PM