Did it really need 3 films? Question of Anakin's downfall
#3
Posted 06 May 2005 - 10:32 AM
Ideally, a similar situation would happen in one movie, and anakin has the entire period between films to brood on the dark side's offer. In the next film he falls at the climax.
Use the same technique for the Romance. He meets and flirts in epidsode 1 then the couple has time to brood on it so when you see them again in ep2 the audience can reasonally believe the feelings have gotten that much heavier.
lucas tried to do that and failed because no one believes that the 8 year old boy still had feelings 10 years later. its nonsensical.
This post has been edited by Just another wretched fan: 06 May 2005 - 10:32 AM
#4
Posted 06 May 2005 - 10:43 AM
...but my GOD, the horribly acting I see in those trailers! Padme: "You're breaking my heart, Annie..."
GAH!!! I've never been so horrorified and amused by such terrible acting!!!
Battle for the Galaxy--read the "other Star Wars"
All I know is I haven't seen the real prequels yet.
#5
Posted 06 May 2005 - 11:15 AM
You COULD have fit it all into one film, but that would have been a pain in the ass. Plus the fact that ANH is called episode IV in the opening crawl.
#6
Posted 06 May 2005 - 02:20 PM
I always thought that the PT would follow the same arc as the OT.
EPISODE 1 BEING GOOD FOR GOOD GUYS
VICTORY AT YAVIN
SOME SORT OF VICTORY FOR ANAKIN IN A CLONE WAR BATTLE
EPISODE 2 BE BAD FOR GOOD GUYS
DEFEAT AT HOTH, SOLO FROZEN, LUKE BEATEN
THE FRUSTRATION AND TURN OF ANAKIN, THE WARS GO AGAINST THE JEDI, PALPATINES DECISION TO RETURN ORDER TO THE GALAXY
EPISODE 3 BE BITTERSWEET
VICTORY AT ENDOR, DEATH OF VADER AT HIS REDEMPTION
THE ANNIHALATION OF THE JEDI, THE BIRTH OF THE TWINS, AND THE BEGINNING OF THE REBELLION
I dont know something like that, something good. I know it is unrealistic to expect Lucas to make the trilogy the way I wanted it to be, but these movies are totally devoid of believable human emotion. I dont really give a shit if Anakin turns or not, at least Natalie wont have to hear him whine anymore.
#7
Posted 06 May 2005 - 02:55 PM
The idea that one should show as much "stuff" as possible is just so much spectacle. Its fluff that distracts from the central plot (Vader's fall from grace). The problem is, there is no clear "grace" for Anakin to fall from. There's no obvious "flaw" that is his downfall. There's no "loss" for him that I can see. A lot of this has to do with all the subplots and "noise" going on around the central story. Some of it is quite promising but never gets enough development to be satisfying. The audience can't be distracted or theme won't develop naturally.
So, yes. Episode III would be all about Vader, ideally from his point of view (so we can emphasize with him) or Obi Wan's (or Padme, or R2D2's, whomever) point of view (so we can emphasize with the storyteller). There are so many things I'd leave out of episode III because they don't cut to the meat. Magee is right in that there should be clear plot choices.
I think the movies are just Lucas's way of working out his complexes with Star Wars. Three movies is an opportunity to develop a single character each time. I *liked* Qui-Gon. TPM should have been all about his story. Ben Kenobi is *cool*. AotC should have been all about him, without his master, with the awesome pressure of raising Anakin (hey, sometimes foster parents just screw up, regardless of intentions). And RotS should have just been about Anakin, finding himself unprepared for a confrontation with the dragon that is the collective shadow of mankind (no one can shoulder that burden).
Joseph Campbell talks about how sometimes the hero meets the dragon and is slain, annihilated into a million pieces, and it becomes his offspring's task to redeem him, or that the hero must pass through a resurrection process while in "the belly of the beast".
Why does it have to be a "choice"? Why can't Anakin go up against the dragon and.....lose? What if everyone was just plain wrong about him? What does that say about projected wishes on the backs of others? Because the way it looks to me now, Anakin was *always* evil, and just lacked a suitable chance to live out who he really was. He was *meant* to be a thug who tortured and murdered people. What does that say about Lucas's view of "providence" or "the Force"?
Lukas: Search your feelings, Father, you can't do this (to the fans). I feel the conflict within you. Let go of your hate.
Darth Lucas: It is too late for me, son. The Emperor (my negative Father image) will show you the true nature of the Force. He is your master now.
Showing some serious Calvinist leanings there, Lucas.
- rangwe
#8
Posted 06 May 2005 - 03:34 PM
Episode 1
- Like Anakin and see his initial training begin.
- See some indication of flaws (not some cherubic cute little kid who clearly has NO evil in him).
- See Anakin's shortcomings (much like Luke's in ESB, impatience, etc.).
- Introduction of potential romance.
Episode 2
- See Anakin's flaws more clearly and see his temptation by the dark side.
- Development of Obi and Ani's relationship and conflicts.
- Development of Padme and Ani's relationship.
Episode 3
- Anakin's complete fall to the dark side.
- Break with Padme and end of relationship.
- Eventual conflict with Obi-Wan and becoming Vader.
Seems like such a simple format but too much is being left for Episode III. This is why it seems like it could be just one movie since the events of Episode I and II really have such little impact on what's going to happen now.
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#9
Posted 06 May 2005 - 04:22 PM
Perhaps, Magee, you could go to the 'Screening Room' and check out the SWIU version of the prequels. I think you would really like them. They are by me, and I worked hard on them, trying to make them as much OT based as possible.
""Seems like such a simple format but too much is being left for Episode III. This is why it seems like it could be just one movie since the events of Episode I and II really have such little impact on what's going to happen now. ""
I urge you, dear ChefElf, my friend, to check out the SWIU version of the prequels so far.
#10
Posted 06 May 2005 - 04:37 PM
Your second point is that Lucas uses his films to act out his own complexes. I had a theory about this. Lucas' wife has left him and apparently he hasnt been on a date since (this is not speculation he talked about it on 60 minutes). I felt that he wanted to make a cute kids movie out of sorrow and show his wife what a good father he is. I was annoyed at this and pissed that he had to ruin my expections about the PT. But I felt sorry for him. I have since though decided that this is not the reason. The PT is almost entirely a gigantic advertisement to sell merchandise. It infects almost every part of every scene, and it makes me physically ill. I have actually grown to hate this man who I have adored my entire life.
#11
Posted 06 May 2005 - 04:43 PM
#12
Posted 06 May 2005 - 05:32 PM
There you go. Look at the descriptions, mine should have SWIU Version on it. Thanks.