[azerty]

What is the Force?

It's what gives a jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things, surrounding us, penetrating us, and binding the galaxy together. However, places can be strong with the force too (the cave of evil, for example), so though life creates it, it doesn't neccesarily need life to sustain itself . A person's size is no indicator of his abilty to feel and use the Force. A person can learn ABOUT the force, (as Obi wan tells Luke to do at his house in the desert), but not everyone can USE the force.

On the other hand, the ability to destroy a planet is "insignificant" next to the power of the Force. Yet Vader can't use it find the rebels or the stolen plans to the Death Star. It is considered a "sad ancient religion" by some, and Luke has never even heard of it before Obi wan tells him that the Force exists. What are we to make of all this conflicting information?

And depsite this tremendous power of the Force, Solo has never seen anything to make him believe in it, despite all his travels around the galaxy. He's seen some evidence of this "all powerful force, which controls everythting", but put it all down to simple tricks and nonsense, and wasn't even remotely convinced.

We hear that the Force has at least 2 sides; the "Force", and the "Dark side of the Force". Sometimes it seems as if the darkness comes not from the Force itself , but from within the person using the Force. At other times it seems as if the Dark side of the Force actually exists, and can seduce people who are basically pure, and cause them to be evil. Vader was seduced by the dark side, according to Obi Wan, and Yoda states that the Dark side is "easier and more seductive". The power that the Force gives a person is a corupting power that must be guarded against.

But about this pureness of action, and temptation of anger: Old Obi Wan had a moment of madness in the cantina, and killed a couple of aliens for no real reason, and didn't seem bothered by it, and didn't turn to the Dark Side. Luke seemed to use the dark side of the Force on the second Death Star when he went momentarily insane and smashed Vader to the floor. And Young Obi Wan fought much more aggresively after Qui Gon was killed, and was probably using the Dark Side - up until he he was knocked into the bottomless pit, and had time to re-compose himself. However, Darth Maul, though using the Dark Side of the Force, did not fight with this same reckless insanity, (though he did pace impatiently when the battle was temporarily interrupted by the energy wall.). Also, Vader was quite calm when fighting Luke on Bespin. So one does not have to lose control to use the Dark side either. Does this mean that anger does not in fact lead to the Dark Side, as we have been lead to believe?

How does a Jedi use the force? He feels it flowing through him. It partially controls your actions, but it also obeys your commands. The force can have a strong influence on the weak minded. Does this mean a weak minded person who is strong with the Force is controlled by the Force more often than not? A Jedi's strength flows from the force. A true Jedi lets go his conscious self, and acts on instinct, stretching out with his feelings. A Jedi can feel the Force around him, and tremors occur around individuals who are strong with the Force. But though the Force seems to eddy around cetain individuals, that individual's powers can be considered weak when confronting another Jedi. Luke is supposedly strong with the Force, but this strength only manifests itself with a bit of training from Obi-wan. He seems to never have shown any powers before meeting Obi Wan, (except perhaps his supposed piloting ability.) However, Annikin did show some ability with the Force; his super reflexes and precognition were a manifestation of the Force, though they were not recognized as such until Qui Gon showed up.

So it seems that control of the Force is not a skill (like a martial art) that can be learned by anyone, no mater how diligently that person may study. It seems to have a quantifiable quality about it. A person can be strong with the Force, and lack the ability to use it, but nobody can control the Force without first having the Force within themselves "The Force is with you...but you are not a Jedi yet.". Another interesting thing is that Obi wan was ONCE a Jedi knight, but didin't consider himself to be one when he was living on Tatooine. Strange choice of words.... had he renounced his religion by that point?

Now, if midichlorians don't exist, then how can this "Force Potential" be measured? For purposes of determining who can be trained as a Jedi and who will derive some benefit from this training, some kind of measurement is needed. Perhaps Lucas should have stuck to quality rather than quantity, but Qui Gon needed some way to sense the potential of Annikin. He could have used some kind of electronic "Force sensor" I suppose, or he could have simply felt a "disturbance in the Force" without being able to compare it or measure it against other disturbances he man have felt in the past. In fact he did sense the Force in Annikin, he merely used the midichlorians to indicate (for purposes of the plot) that Annikin had the highest Force potential of any creature ever. Without midichlorians, it would have been difficult to relay the simple information that the danger that Annikin represents is because of this huge, quantifiable potential. He has more possible power than the boss Jedi, Yoda, and to cultivate this power would be dangerous. Dangerous to Annikin himself, and dangerous to the galaxy. Why? Power corrupts, and all that Orwellian stuff.

[Mnesymone]

Firstly, a wonderful post. I had been thinking of doing one like it myself.

If it's not too bold, I might throw what I can into the melting pot though.

The Force is, or seems to be, an emotionless and formless universe-spanning power. It is malleable and controllable, but can itself control. It is timeless, or rather posesses all time, so through the force, "old friends long gone" and the future can be seen. It seems that certain people have the Force with them, and can come, through a degree of training or without knowing it, become attuned to the force - immersed in its flow. Such people can through the force, develop extraordinary reflexes through precognition and the sixth sense the force provides, they have the power to master flesh, whether in the form of healing or of enhanced strength and they can form and control energy, such as Yoda lifting the X-wing or the Emperor attacking Luke.

These Force-wielders, though drawing on an emotionless power, can through their own intentions or emotions use this power for good or evil. The Force, used for good, provides knowledge, foresight, the strength to defend and gentle powers of persuasion and influence over the mind. Used for evil, it provides predatory extending far beyond the self, the strength to destroy and powers to dominate and enslave the mind.

The good and evil purposes form the Light and Dark sides of the Force.
Amongst untrained individuals, the lure of the Dark side stems from, or so it seems, their own thoughts - the rash who have not yet brought their own emotions under control. Once given over to the Dark side, its power is hard to let go - yet not impossible - "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" and such.

The Jedi seem to be an order of Force-wielders dedicated to the light side - their training pitched to engender calm and peaceful, wise yet powerful warriors - the Jedi Knights.
The Sith seem to be an order of Force-wielders dedicated to the Dark side - trained to channel and master their darkest emotions to give them the strength to fulfil their darkest desires.

One could imagine the Sith forming civilisations in servitude to their power in ancient times, while the Jedi's protection allowed wiser civilisations like the Republic to form. One can imagine that the Sith Wars, which would have virtually destroyed the Sith, was between the enslaved Sith empires and the Old Republic under the protection of the Jedi.

It also seems, at least to me, that Force-wielders, mighty as they are in life, are not utterly destroed in death. They seem to be able to anchor their souls to a place or person - Obi-Wan Kenobi's vigilance over Luke - I had the idea that Yoda would have duelled a Sith lord on Dagobah, and in his death he filled the cave with his essence.

The force could be supposed, in certain cases, to prolong life - Yoda's nine hundred year life-span despite his small size and likely short natural life-span (Elephants live much longer than shrews, and people live much longer than dogs), seems to lead to the Force being able to grant longevity. However, I would assume that this is an exceptional case.

The strength of a Jedi seems to ebb and flow - perhaps with disuse, or over-use, they are stripped of their former might and left with their gentler powers. Thusly, if when the Jedi survivors of the Clone Wars were hunted, they were overmatched, and some were able to hide from the Emperor's Dark Knights, of which I would assume Vader was but one. Such Jedi, like Yoda and Ben, would not have the power themselves to fight the Emperor and his servants, but would have the subtle art to render themselves invisible to the Emperor and train perhaps someday some young man like Luke Skywalker with the end of his defeating the Emperor. This would explain why Ben considered himself to once have been a Jedi Knight.

So - aggression, fear and hatred lead to the Dark Side, but once there, it's powers can be used calmly and controlled - Vader maintains self-control quite well, as do Maul and Dooku. Also leading to the Dark Side does not mean that a young force-wielder acting out of these emotions automatically binds them to darkness - Luke, though he teeters on a knife edge in his desperate defense against Vader in Empire and his desperate assault upon him in Jedi does not fall, through some final act or realisation - witnessing how alike to his father he was as he strikes of his hand to see the machine gave him pause enough that he did not kill Vader and lose himselfto the Dark Side.

But... midichlorians, the quantification of the force through some device rather than through its perception with the force... I do not agree with these.

[JW Wells]

Now, if midichlorians don't exist, then how can this "Force Potential" be measured? For purposes of determining who can be trained as a Jedi and who will derive some benefit from this training, some kind of measurement is needed. Perhaps Lucas should have stuck to quality rather than quantity, but Qui Gon needed some way to sense the potential of Annikin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heck, why do we have to measure it? Couldn't Qui-Gonn say "the Force is strong with this one" and leave it at that? The Force gets sillier as it gets more quantifiable. It doesn't, and shouldn't, follow the same rules as everything else. It's the sense of "Force strength must be quantifiable, and I must be able to rank everyone from strongest to weakest" that's making the treatment of the Force in the PT so surpassingly lame.

[floppydisk]

"The force is an energy field, created by all living things." - Obi-wan (ANH)

Simple. If the force is really an energy field, someone sensitive to it can feel when another person who is strong in the force is near it. Qui-Gon could've explained this to Anikan's mother, so the audience could get it.

[J m HofMarN]

That really was a great post. I think if the PT is ignored it's a lot easier to understand how the force works.

[JW Wells]

But about this pureness of action, and temptation of anger: Old Obi Wan had a moment of madness in the cantina, and killed a couple of aliens for no real reason, and didn't seem bothered by it, and didn't turn to the Dark Side.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I take issue with this. Obi-Wan attacks the two to defend Luke, after they've threatened his life, and after he has tried (and failed) to resolve the situation non-violently. There is no evidence whatsoever that he acted out of anger - Alec Guiness' face looks impassive throughout. This, and his duel with Darth Vader, is also the only time Obi-Wan engages in violence in the entire movie.

And Young Obi Wan fought much more aggresively after Qui Gon was killed, and was probably using the Dark Side. . .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see a difference between these two things. Being angry is one thing, and something that Jedi are encouraged to avoid as much as possible, but "calling upon the Dark Side of the Force ™" seems to be more than that - involving trying to use your anger as a tool to hurt people. Obi-Wan attacking a bit more frequently doesn't seem to fit the bill. Luke's duel with Vader in Return of the Jedi, however, seems much closer - but the final step to "complete" his turn to the dark side is to "strike down" Darth Vader after he's helpless.

[Despondent]

It's crap.



It's merely a commercialized, acceptable form of spirituality which could endure the "political correctness" eventuality. It's a cooler way of saying, "Yes God, I'll do the right thing. Because I believe in something I can't see "

Unless you turn to the dark side (Trust your feelings, Luke. When you are tempted, say "get behind me, dark side!" and you'll be fine.)



Don't do what Darth Don't, does.

[CowboyCurtis]

I had the idea that Yoda would have duelled a Sith lord on Dagobah, and in his death he filled the cave with his essence.

Or as in my rewrites, it was once a prison for a Sith Spirit, and all of its vengeance and anger and rage left an Force "imprint" on the place. In my rewrites, death of a loved one can do the same thing, so if say, Shmi dies on Tatooine, getting near Tatooine would cause considerable anguish for Vader (which is why he didn't go down himself). Just my 2 cents.

[floppydisk]

That really was a great post.

Whose JM?

[snaithbert]

azerty, really really awesome post. My hat is off to you, good sir.

And it brings up some stuff that I've always found interesting about Star Wars, which is the whole "don't give into hate" thing. It was played down in the OT, but in the PT they really batter home the point that having even the slightest hateful thought means that you'll instantly turn to the dark side, etc. To me that just seems totally insane. If you so much as think an evil thought- you're off to join the dark side? Life just isn't that black and white. Not even fantasy is that black and white and when it is (especially in the case of the PT) it's just boring. But it's an excellent window into Lucas' mind, because I'm guessing he's a very "moral" guy (quotes intended) who feels that anyone who doesn't share his beliefs is on the dark side, etc.

It's one thing to say letting hate consume you leads to the dark side. But to say that one dark thought means you're on the dark side path, that's just nuts. And what's more it's a pretty big yawner. And I think ultimately that's what makes the PT such a drag (bad acting and dialogue helps a lot though). There's NO ambiguity for ANY character except Anakin- and we all know what's going to happen to him anyhow. Everyone else is SO black and white and there's absolutely not question about thier motives or actions, etc. It might as well be a western, with a bad guy with a black hat and moustache, etc. In the PT you had characters you had to wonder about and everything was in the air until the final reel of the trilogy. With the PT the characters are utterly predictable and you can see everything coming a mile away. When everyone's either completely good or completely bad- it's just so damn boring.

Even when Lucas TRIES to make a character whose motives are unclear (Count Dooku, anyone?) it's so lame and obvious and then 20 minutes later his motives become clear anyhow.

I guess this is nothing new, we all know Lucas is a terrible writer. But I just get depressed when I weigh what the PT could have been against what it really was. Making a prequel trilogy never seemed like a great idea to me, but if you MUST make such a movie- can you at least TRY and make it good?

Sigh.

At the very least, I just hope the PT doesn't totally ruin the OT for me.

I'll be pissed if I'm watching Star Wars and when C3P0 comes on, I think, "hey it's that robot that Darth Vader built."

[CowboyCurtis]

In the PT you had characters you had to wonder about and everything was in the air until the final reel of the trilogy

And not in a good way, either. This is what the gushers tout as being a "grown up plot" and at the same time "made for children."

You can still write a story where we as VIEWERS know the good from bad, yet the characters in the story are confused or misdirected.

[Despondent]

Even Shrek was able to relate to differing audience levels.

If you have to ignore an audience, ignore the kiddies. Seriously, when they grow up they'll thank you.

Do the opposite, and there you are.

[Chefelf]

Even Shrek was able to relate to differing audience levels.

If you have to ignore an audience, ignore the kiddies. Seriously, when they grow up they'll thank you.

Do the opposite, and there you are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quite, quite true. I don't buy the whole "lowest common denominator" crap. Don't insult your audience's intelligence by making things "simple" so that they'll understand. Make something good and chances are that even the kiddies will be able to appreciate it though maybe on a different level. I was three years old when ESB came out and when I watched it later as a five year old I loved it even more. Not because of the development of Vader as Luke's father or the struggle of Luke's training. Mostly I liked it because there were spaceships, cool looking AT-ATs and lightsabers.

Shrek is a good example. Chances are that 6-7 year olds didn't get all the jokes in Shrek, but that doesn't mean they didn't think it was great that there was a talking donkey!

[barend]

there were a few films i loved growing up that as i got older i understood more and more...

if the audience doesn't get it they'll just want to watch it until they do (if it's an exiting or interesting movie), or if your like one of my friends, you'll ask me.

either way... if you make a film too simple it will age too quickly...

kids are not going to want to watch it again when they are older...
oh, what am i saying people are morons and the love the PT...

fuck it, we're fighting a loosing battle here... the lame outnumber the intelligent.

what get's me are people who seem intelligent but like it anyway.

the force was a great concept. you can argue that the films were for kids, but that concept was one that could stick with us...

the midichlorine crap kills it in the ass. and shouldn't stick with anyone...

[Mnesymone]

See - when the older OT fans grew up their children watched them, and enjoyed them - while the adults still enjoyed them - years after they had first seen them.

between the casting for Anakin - Jar Jar Binks, Midichlorians, darth paul and darth hideous's subtle plots and CGI armies PT has all the "stay-in-our-hearts-and-minds-forever" appeal of the anopheles mosquito.