What can Americans do to help end the war and save the world?
#76
Posted 10 January 2005 - 11:53 AM
This discussion is very interesting and I anxiously await its outcome. In the meantime, I thought I'd just say this:
I believe that any prolonged government is going to breed sheep eventually, simply because people will learn and conform to any government standard. We should instead teach people to think (which I know quite well will take a very long time), so that no one can be easily manipulated or influence by propaganda or the media; they will reject it, as they should, and attempt to form their own opinions. Having the will to try is always the first step.
The trick is to breed sheep in the direction you want your government to go. Hopefully your idea of a government is better (overall) than the previous one.
-Ben (OneWithStrange)
I believe that any prolonged government is going to breed sheep eventually, simply because people will learn and conform to any government standard. We should instead teach people to think (which I know quite well will take a very long time), so that no one can be easily manipulated or influence by propaganda or the media; they will reject it, as they should, and attempt to form their own opinions. Having the will to try is always the first step.
The trick is to breed sheep in the direction you want your government to go. Hopefully your idea of a government is better (overall) than the previous one.
-Ben (OneWithStrange)
#77
Posted 10 January 2005 - 06:16 PM
I'm sure that's what many try to do, but I think even trying to get the sheep to think is nigh impossible. The point of them being sheep is that they don't think, whether it's an outright refusal (be it conscious or not), inability or lack of desire to, or whatever.
I try to do the thinking thing all of the time. But then we have to get into a psychological discussion as to how individual thinking people develop into who they are, which I really don't have the effort to do right now.
I try to do the thinking thing all of the time. But then we have to get into a psychological discussion as to how individual thinking people develop into who they are, which I really don't have the effort to do right now.
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#79
Posted 17 January 2005 - 04:29 AM
QUOTE (J m HofMarN @ Nov 17 2004, 11:36 PM)
Better men then myself are dying even as I write this in the streets of Faluja and Ram Allah. In Jenin and Samara and in Mosul. I take my anarchy-sign-embroidered beret off to these freedom fighters.
What I want to know is what Americans can do to help end the occupation of Iraq. I've marched on the capital a few times, signed peititions, sent letters to the US and Arab medias. But the people who own the US media are the same ones who own the government and the same ones that own the fiendish companies behind this imperialist genocide- Northrop-Grumman, McDonnel-Douglas, Dow Chemical, Lockheed-Martin, etc.
Democracy, as Thomas Jefferson said, is in the hands of the people. But the people are lost and afraid to speak out under the Bush regime. Many have already been secretly arrested or deported. It isn't just celebrities like Cat Stevens there are thousands of people among Bush's "Disappeared", from the US and from the countries that Bush's forces of oppression occupy. And the silent masses meanwhile become responsible for every successive attrocity comitted in the name of their country.
So I ask, what can we all do to help end this war? I havn't received any intelligence pertaining to the likelyhood of a draft so preparing for a major draft evasion effort would be useless. People have already killed themselves to protest the war and no attention was paid to their heroic actions by the corporate media. Anyone conducting acts of sabotage to hurt the war effort would be branded a terrorist and likely killed and the effects of their actions would be meager.
I want to raise my voice with the resistance in Faluja against the hedgemony and oppression that I read about every day (for I cannot truly imagine the horrors of living under such conditions as the storm troopers impose upon the Iraqis) but there seems to be so little that can be done. Protests are ignored and violence becomes terrorism. Meanwhile people continue to die in a war that cannot be won because free people will never bow before tyranny.
If anyone has any ideas I'd be glad for the advice.
What I want to know is what Americans can do to help end the occupation of Iraq. I've marched on the capital a few times, signed peititions, sent letters to the US and Arab medias. But the people who own the US media are the same ones who own the government and the same ones that own the fiendish companies behind this imperialist genocide- Northrop-Grumman, McDonnel-Douglas, Dow Chemical, Lockheed-Martin, etc.
Democracy, as Thomas Jefferson said, is in the hands of the people. But the people are lost and afraid to speak out under the Bush regime. Many have already been secretly arrested or deported. It isn't just celebrities like Cat Stevens there are thousands of people among Bush's "Disappeared", from the US and from the countries that Bush's forces of oppression occupy. And the silent masses meanwhile become responsible for every successive attrocity comitted in the name of their country.
So I ask, what can we all do to help end this war? I havn't received any intelligence pertaining to the likelyhood of a draft so preparing for a major draft evasion effort would be useless. People have already killed themselves to protest the war and no attention was paid to their heroic actions by the corporate media. Anyone conducting acts of sabotage to hurt the war effort would be branded a terrorist and likely killed and the effects of their actions would be meager.
I want to raise my voice with the resistance in Faluja against the hedgemony and oppression that I read about every day (for I cannot truly imagine the horrors of living under such conditions as the storm troopers impose upon the Iraqis) but there seems to be so little that can be done. Protests are ignored and violence becomes terrorism. Meanwhile people continue to die in a war that cannot be won because free people will never bow before tyranny.
If anyone has any ideas I'd be glad for the advice.
I wish there was some way. I agree with you. Too many people are afraid to open their mouths in fear that they will be accused of being a terrorist.
I was upset when Bush senior went into office, I was upset when his son went into office, and after he got four more years ......well forget it, theres goes the country.
I believe he's oil hungry and used any excuse just to get his hands on the oil....come on, his family are oil people.
Now we as Americans are suffering for it and will continue to for quite some time.
I hate what's going on and it scares the bageebee's out of me, not just for me but for my children.
#84
Posted 20 January 2005 - 01:34 AM
Of course they want the election, but if they were smart, they'd want it rescheduled. In my opinion, there wasn't adequate political campaigning and the only viable candidate appears to be Iyad Allawi, who coincidently was appointed interim prime minister by the U.S.-appointed Iraqi Governing Council. Rushing into an election is never good, especially not under the hazardous conditions witnessed in Iraq. It's not fair to the Iraqi people. This is oppression, whether it's 'in your face' or not.
-Ben (OneWithStrange)
-Ben (OneWithStrange)
#85
Posted 20 January 2005 - 03:36 PM
"I believe that any prolonged government is going to breed sheep eventually, simply because people will learn and conform to any government standard."
Yeah, just look at this message board.
"We should instead teach people to think (which I know quite well will take a very long time), so that no one can be easily manipulated or influence by propaganda or the media; they will reject it, as they should, and attempt to form their own opinions. Having the will to try is always the first step."
Yeah, Hitler taught people to think. Look what happened. They thought up the death of 6 million. You can't teach people to think. They either do or they don't. You can't warn people about manipulative villains, you will be cast out, as a shaman, a witch doctor, a christian, a liberal or a scientist. You will fail miserably.
"The trick is to breed sheep in the direction you want your government to go. Hopefully your idea of a government is better (overall) than the previous one."
George Bush is doing this right now. He has people who hate him, even liberals defending him.
Yeah, just look at this message board.
"We should instead teach people to think (which I know quite well will take a very long time), so that no one can be easily manipulated or influence by propaganda or the media; they will reject it, as they should, and attempt to form their own opinions. Having the will to try is always the first step."
Yeah, Hitler taught people to think. Look what happened. They thought up the death of 6 million. You can't teach people to think. They either do or they don't. You can't warn people about manipulative villains, you will be cast out, as a shaman, a witch doctor, a christian, a liberal or a scientist. You will fail miserably.
"The trick is to breed sheep in the direction you want your government to go. Hopefully your idea of a government is better (overall) than the previous one."
George Bush is doing this right now. He has people who hate him, even liberals defending him.
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)
Enjoy this Tribute to Nazism...(Mp3)
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)
Enjoy this Tribute to Nazism...(Mp3)
#86
Posted 20 January 2005 - 03:38 PM
"Speaking of stormtroopers. How are the American soldiers opressing the IRaqi's?"
Torture...eh...let me see...rape....torture...did I mention torture? Execution if you play dead, more rape and torture.
Torture...eh...let me see...rape....torture...did I mention torture? Execution if you play dead, more rape and torture.
"Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities."
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)
Enjoy this Tribute to Nazism...(Mp3)
~ Voltaire (1694-1778)
Enjoy this Tribute to Nazism...(Mp3)
#88
Posted 21 January 2005 - 09:47 AM
Hanny - Actually, Hitler taught people to deny their cognative processes because those damned non-Germans were responsible for everything that was wrong with Germany. Ever read Milgrim's experiments involving the Perils of Obedience?
I don't see how anyone who considers him/herself liberal and actually knows what the term means and is willing to stand up for his/her beliefs could defend Bush.
The best thing I can come up with is "Well, he improved diplomatic relations with Britain, although the population of the world despises him. But Blair likes him, damn it!" Somebody else help me find some positive things Bush has done for the country/the world, minus the war in Iraq, of course.
I don't see how anyone who considers him/herself liberal and actually knows what the term means and is willing to stand up for his/her beliefs could defend Bush.
The best thing I can come up with is "Well, he improved diplomatic relations with Britain, although the population of the world despises him. But Blair likes him, damn it!" Somebody else help me find some positive things Bush has done for the country/the world, minus the war in Iraq, of course.
This space for rent. Inquire within.
#89
Posted 21 January 2005 - 10:18 AM
what can america do to stop the war?
nothing...
as in: america should just stop doing things...
nothing...
as in: america should just stop doing things...
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#90
Posted 21 January 2005 - 01:29 PM
Slade- He didn't run over anyone during his parade. I was half expecting him to flatten a small child and then throw a gold piece to the father, snort some coke and then continue on his way alla Tale of Two Cities.
Barend- The problem is while all of us intelligent free thinking Americans are doing nothing the ignorant ones are waving flags and marching through Faluja...
Barend- The problem is while all of us intelligent free thinking Americans are doing nothing the ignorant ones are waving flags and marching through Faluja...
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