"From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" What is Anakin talking about?
#16
Posted 10 April 2007 - 02:28 PM
Lucas dropped all that and came up with the idea that Vader was Luke's father. Which on its own is not too bad, except that it made the prequels difficult to write (he should have asked for help from someone other than his children). It also made the next film hard to do, since it required a lot more than teddy bears in the forest and suddenly Leia is related to Luke as well. That revelation is critical to my childhood realisation that Lucas had bought himself a leather jacket and a speedboat.
#17
Posted 10 April 2007 - 06:59 PM
nice one.
but to it's credit, it was a cracker of a twist.
and was direct and to the point, and didn't require a strory about someone named plagis. seriously, if: "i've got about feeling about this" could be used 6 times why couldn't "i am your father" be used twice.
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#18
Posted 11 April 2007 - 04:04 PM
Which on its own is not too bad, except that it made the prequels difficult to write
(he should have asked for help from someone other than his children).
It also made the next film hard to do, since it required a lot more than teddy bears in the forest and suddenly Leia is related to Luke as well. That revelation is critical to my childhood realisation that Lucas had bought himself a leather jacket and a speedboat.
Come on man
do ya think GL really
asked his kids for help.
The story would've been miles
above what it became if he'd
had help from katie & jet
(don't know why i know their names)
'cuz children have imagination
and as you've already stated
Georgie was more interested in dolla dolla bills
Duct tape is like the force....
There's a lightside, a darkside
and it holds everything together
There are too many people in the world...We need another plague -Dwight K. Shrute [The Office]
#19
Posted 14 April 2007 - 12:04 AM
It is.
I still remember the shock the moment he said the line. Not Darth, but one of another high-schooler. Eight of us sitting around a table in Art Class. One declares "I heard Darth Vader is Luke's Father". Seven souls screamed out in anguish, and one was silenced.
#20
Posted 15 April 2007 - 07:37 PM
using the ruse of his death also as a means to intensify lukes attitude towards vader.
a pretty intense theory for a couple of 4-5 year olds, but we were pretty intense kids.
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Music: HYPOID (industrial rock) | Spectrox Toxemia (Death Metal) | Cannibalingus (80s style thrash metal) | Wasabi Nose Bleed (Exp.Techno) | DeadfeeD (Exp.Ambient) |||(more to come)
#21
Posted 15 July 2007 - 12:08 AM
listen.
the main problem is that he says: "from my point of view, the jedi are evil."
now aside from this being yet another self proclimation of internal proccess (i.e: "you're breaking my heart.") of things people NEVER SAY!!!!, the very fact that he refers to his opnion as being opinion, and more importantly from his own perspective is utterly flawed.
in a heated argument you don't say: "well from my point of view..."
if you're fighting to the death with your previously best friend, then your situation seems to project the fact that you don't consider your understanding of the situation as opnion, let alone a personal one based on perspective but as complete, unquestionable FACT.
the fact that he states his POV as just that, completely undermines his entire motivation and conviction, and completely thows his whole commitment to the fight into extreem doubt to an extent beyond any continuation.
He's echoing what Palpatine said earlier in the film: "Good is a point of view, Anakin." Undoubtedly, this comment of Anakin's is what eventually led to Obi-Wan's "So what I told you was true—from a certain point of view... Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."
It's a simple process.
#22
Posted 15 July 2007 - 07:33 AM
and yes, barend, you are right about the symantics and syntax of the sentence structure, but while that may be poor dialougue, the essence of the declaration is keenly important to understanding anakin's conflict.
btw, i got 'L's on sale this week so there are a lot of them floating around!
This post has been edited by xenduck: 15 July 2007 - 07:37 AM
#24
Posted 17 July 2007 - 09:54 AM
The thing is: ESB leaves all of this up for interpretation. Maybe Vader is lying to scare the crap out of Luke.
Its ROTJ that tries to explain every thing in a neat little package, which I guess I can hardly fault it for given the fact that "I am your father" thread is a powder keg.
#25
Posted 17 July 2007 - 10:29 AM
#26
Posted 18 July 2007 - 12:50 PM
It's just as silly as "somehow I've always known" this "point of view" nonsense.
And might I point out that Anakin is risking everything for his "hunch" which makes it stupid for him to carefully couch it in language of opinion and point of view.
Padme's brush with death is entirely Anakin's fault. Had he not gotten her pregnant she wouldn't have had a danger of dying in childbirth (and presumably she wouldn't have "willed herself to die" if he hadn't strangled her with the force and called her a liar). She wouldn't have gotten pregnant if they hadn't been having sex, and they wouldn't have been having sex if he hadn't started up a secret illicit relationship with her (we're told that they're BOTH breaking their vows after all).
Anakin has no good reason to believe that Palpatine can give him the power to save lives with the Dark Side. In fact, Palpatine ADMITS he lied to him, and Anakin still pledges himself to his teachings and goes and murders a bunch of people at his command.
Anakin is a selfish twat, there's no way around it, and whatever his point of view, he's evil. Which is why it's just plain stupid for Padme to say "there's good in him" except ham handed retro-active "foreshadowing" for ROTJ. If there's good in him, why are you committing suicide? (Nevermind why your kids aren't enough to live for)
I agree, Anakin should have just stated this like the zealot he is. For him to suddenly qualify his statement like this is just bad writing, unless Lucas just wanted us to feel forced sympathy for the Sith and contempt for the Jedi (because the Jedi intolerantly deal in absolutes, while the Sith are open minded and can see other points of view??).
I feel no sympathy for Anakin whatsoever in these movies.
#27
Posted 18 July 2007 - 01:15 PM
Most of the words you hear from Anakin's/Vader's mouth, especially towards the end of ROTS arent really coming from Anakin/Vader, per se...but are really words that are spoken via a deep saturation of evil Sith influence into Anakin, thus changing him into Vader.
think of it as manipulation in the darkest form, brain washing, if you will.
if you befriend someone, they will believe you, as long as what you say seems to hold some sort of logic. when palpatine consistently conjured logical answers to many of anakin's suspicious questions, anakin began to slowly believe palpatine more and more. the more anakin believed and befriended palpatine...the easier it became for palpatine to lure anakin to the dark side
i believe it was said best in ROTS, when Yoda says to Obi-Wan "gone is he, the boy Anakin, consumed by Vader" (something to that extent, not sure on what was said verbatim)
basically, Yoda had already realized that Anakin was at the point of no return,.he had been totally brain-screwed by Palpatine,..so that many of the phrases that you hear anakin/vader recite at the end of the film..are somewhat of unconscious responses,..(meaning, that,.if anakin were of stable mind,..he would have never recited them)
There was an apparent struggle always within Anakin,..as Luke always said to his father "I see the good in you,..I see the conflict"...i cant begin to tell you how true that statement is! ...and i feel its that statement right there, that may help you to understand better what exactly anakin was going thru in ROTS,...it was a definite struggle!...this was apparent by anakin's/vader's scream at the end of ROTS...."NOOOOOOOO!!" when anakin realized he has been transformed into Darth Vader, black suit and all,..by following Palpatine's lies.
But it was the "power of the dark side" that kept Anakin's struggle back to the light side of the force, firmly in place,..with only Luke being the only hope for anakin's return to the light side of the force.
i hope this helps you to better understand, not only what was going on in ROTS, but the entire saga.
Hmm, so why isn't his next act after tearing himself away from the operating table to strangle the life out of the bastard who lied to him and talked him into doing all those horrible deeds?
So he was betrayed but resigns himself to serving him for another 24 years before deciding to try to overthrow him? What?!?
#28
Posted 18 July 2007 - 02:35 PM
Three simple words: "You killed her."
All of Anakin/Vader's hopes and dreams for the future were crushed by this simple statement.
Finis. End of the Prequel Trilogy.