6DAS Spoilers
#244
Posted 06 February 2007 - 04:44 PM
Also, something that struck me about all the major characters of the series: they're all "pure," in the sense of having received the three "Blessed Agonies." All of them, that is, except for Cabadath, who never suffered the agony of the soul, as far as I can tell.
The Guide/Trilby: waaay too much agony of the mind, flat out died as an agony of the body, and killed Phillip as his agony of the soul.
The Caretaker/Somerset: more excessive agony of the mind, killed himself (with Frehorn's blade, no less) as an agony of the body, and knocked his friend, the captain, into the reactor for agony of the soul (of course, that's iffy, we don't know whether or not he suspected it wasn't really the captain.)
The New Prince/DaCabe: being possessed by DeFoe seemed pretty agonizing to his mind, obviously had plenty agony of the body, and it seems that getting Janine killed served him as an agony of the soul. If not that, he got a lot of Trilbies killed.
However, while we assume that Cabadath suffered plenty of mind and body agony under Chzo, he never cared about anyone (let alone kill them), except maybe the guy who saw his summoning of Chzo, and he escaped; he was a hermit, after all. And again, he didn't kill anyone (as far as we know) until he was already the Prince, and enjoyed killing. So this could be one factor in Chzo's goal of getting a new Prince. Maybe a "pure" Prince wouldn't be able to disobey Chzo.
#245
Posted 06 February 2007 - 05:13 PM
Remember this: After the Mephistopheles killer met his future self and killed himself, he obviously became the man in red (...) and entered Chzo - at a time after the new prince was born. That old, pale Trilby hanging in Chzo's flesh was the trembling one from the end of the game, the last clone. RedRobe took his life energy, passed it to the dying Original, tried to make a run for it and - that's the most important part - ran into the New prince. This proves a ) that the New prince won't leave the realm of Chzo anytime soon and b ) that the game came somewhat to an end by killing the last of the existing Trilbys.
Don't know if anyone wrote something about this matter already, it's just that this thread somehow grew to big to read all of it.
So how did you blow anyones mind now?
#246
Posted 06 February 2007 - 06:20 PM
I don't think it's mindblowing, but I think what he's saying is that the new Prince's presence when the newly made Caretaker visited Chzo means that the new Prince doesn't ever leave Chzo after Cabadath's downfall. This would suggest that Chzo just wants to exist in peace, and has no further plans to ever interact with the Technological Realm.
I don't think that's necessarily the case, though. Cabadath could come and go as he (or Chzo) pleased. So just because the new Prince happens to be around to protect Chzo when the Caretaker pops in to kill Trilby doesn't mean he's always with Chzo.
Also, assuming the new Prince is completely subservient to Chzo, he would only leave Chzo to do something that was directly Chzo's bidding. As we have no clue what Chzo wants, aside from his new Prince, there's no way of knowing if the new Prince ever goes into the Technological Realm or not.
However, I do agree on his second point. Trilby's (final) death is a good way to end the series, as his life now basically spans the whole timeline.
EDIT: A question for someone who has a gamesave near and before the scene when the Caretaker kills Trilby: what exactly happens there again? I mean, when Somerset runs into the new Prince, what do they do? I can't seem to remember much about that part, and I'm too lazy to play through it again just yet.
This post has been edited by Tactless: 06 February 2007 - 06:24 PM
#247
Posted 06 February 2007 - 06:22 PM
The Caretaker/Somerset: more excessive agony of the mind, killed himself (with Frehorn's blade, no less) as an agony of the body, and knocked his friend, the captain, into the reactor for agony of the soul (of course, that's iffy, we don't know whether or not he suspected it wasn't really the captain.)
I'm not so sure that that is Trilby's agony of the soul... one of the notes said that it was losing something you completely depend on emotionally(a rough paraphrase). I can't think of any good alternatives, but one possibility could be the fact that he didn't stop Chzo after all his years of work and was even captured and bound to Chzo (although, yes I believe that was a clone).
As for Somerset, his agony of the soul could be killing his father or being incarcerated(as this took away his life as a psychologist... far less likely IMO).
#248
Posted 06 February 2007 - 06:34 PM
As for Somerset, his agony of the soul could be killing his father or being incarcerated(as this took away his life as a psychologist... far less likely IMO).
Yeah, I know that Trilby killing Phillip was a bit iffy, but he sure seems to agonize about it a lot. I mean, when you spark the clean Trilby clone's memory with the name "Harty," he certainly seems to go through a bit of mental turmoil. Maybe Trilby isn't pure after all, though. Makes sense, because the pure people (DaCabe, Somerset) seem to get amazing kinds of power while Trilby just gets to be an army of confused clones.
And I completely forgot about Somerset's uncle (not father). Killing family is a lot better agony of the soul than killing a crazed zombie.
#249
Posted 06 February 2007 - 07:14 PM
What do you mean, his uncle? He killed his dad, not his uncle. (I, personally, originally thought that 'Jonathan' was his uncle, but no, it's his dad.)
Because I played that specific bit 3 times...
When Somerset runs into the New Prince, he just turns around and jumps down that hole.
And that's it. No dialogue or anything. The New Prince just stands... er, floats there and watches Somerset jump down the hole. So exciting.
#250
Posted 06 February 2007 - 07:29 PM
Definitely the former. That ridiculousl sex scene wasn't for nothing, I guarantee you.
This post has been edited by HMC: 06 February 2007 - 07:29 PM
#252
Posted 07 February 2007 - 01:41 AM
Okay, you're right, where did I get uncle from, then? So yeah, killing his father is a pretty good agony of the soul.
When Somerset runs into the New Prince, he just turns around and jumps down that hole.
And that's it. No dialogue or anything. The New Prince just stands... er, floats there and watches Somerset jump down the hole. So exciting.
Hmm, odd. I remember that now, that's the same hole that the new Prince knocked the Arrogant Man down, presumably to be tortured and/or killed by Chzo. That kind of opens up an interesting view of the Caretaker.
When he first arrived in Chzo, Somerset still seemed basically like Somerset; still lost and confused and very human. However, the Caretaker we see later (and earlier) is obviously a bit wiser and more knowledgable about his abilities. So, my guess is that when Somerset fell down that hole, Chzo realized/already knew (stupid nonlinear time) his potential usefulness, and instead of just torturing him for the fun of it, guided Somerset to a better knowledge of time and his own powers, to take on his role as the Caretaker, the final piece of the puzzle Chzo needed to create the bridge.
Well, like I said, Theo had received all of the "Blessed Agonies" while Cabadath never experienced the agony of the soul. I'm assuming this would make him more malleable than Cabadath. Also, the new Prince's, "protect him always" quote in reference to Chzo seems fairly reverent. Plus, he's still around guarding Chzo 200 years later. I guess I don't have any real evidence to support that claim, but Chzo had 400 years worth of people to choose, so I think he'd get one that'd be totally subservient.
#253
Posted 07 February 2007 - 02:37 AM
Hey I never thought about it like that. I always assumed the hole there was just a "generic exit" which severd the next best purpose (fleeing for Somerset, the permanent exit of Cabadath). But that Chzo actually helped in the creation of the caretaker never came into my mind.
As I said somewhere before, I believe that Somerset is just as well a Prince as Cabadath and Dacabe are. Just not of Chzo, but of "Destiny". Chzo pretty much just passed him over to "Destiny" instead of digesting him or something (who knows where that hole leads), and maybe in exchange made an arrangement with "Destiny" to change the destiny of a few people. I mean, if it really was destiny of DaCabe to end up as the New Prince, he wouldn't have needed a caretaker for it. It would've just happened.
And, who knows, maybe having a Prince was fancy in the realm of gods, so "Destiny" was so happy to have one it actually aggred to Chzo's offer
#254
Posted 07 February 2007 - 02:42 AM
Quote