[Jejef Thgaron]

Why are you trading clear and concise evidence for speculative nonsense that you just made up?

You might as well be saying, Luke Skywalker wasn’t actually a Jedi, he was just some kid who wanted the glory of killing the Emperor so he tricked Yoda and Kenobi into thinking he cared about becoming a Jedi when really he just wanted to learn some cool skills.

Clear and concise evidence? Yes, let's all be good little automaton droids and believe everything Palpatine says. HE IS THE SITH LORD! Sith Lords are masters of deception. Dooku is not a Sith, he is a rogue Jedi with a noble, aristocratic background, who became tired of the Jedi Council's B.S. If Dooku was a Sith Lord, don't you think he would have killed Yoda? If Dooku was out to kill Palpatine, then I would believe he was a Sith Lord, but Dooku isn't a malicious character. He left Yoda alive out of respect... just like a gentleman would.

The Sith are evil and they are out to kill if things don't go their way. Dooku isn't evil, he's too proud to acknowledge the existence of 'good' or 'evil'. He trained Grievous. Grievous said, "I have been trained in your Jedi arts." How could Grievous say 'Jedi' arts if he were trained by a Sith? I would hardly find this line to be speculative nonsense that I just made up. In fact, it's in ROTS.

Also... why is the name 'Darth Tyranus' mentioned only a couple of times? Why is Dooku intent on keeping his real name instead of being known as a 'Darth'?

Another point to bring up... Luke Skywalker didn't kill the Emperor, Vader did. All Luke wanted to do is succeed where Obi-Wan failed.

[Sailor Abbey]

Clear and concise evidence? Yes, let's all be good little automaton droids and believe everything Palpatine says. HE IS THE SITH LORD! Sith Lords are masters of deception. Dooku is not a Sith, he is a rogue Jedi with a noble, aristocratic background, who became tired of the Jedi Council's B.S. If Dooku was a Sith Lord, don't you think he would have killed Yoda? If Dooku was out to kill Palpatine, then I would believe he was a Sith Lord, but Dooku isn't a malicious character. He left Yoda alive out of respect... just like a gentleman would.

Lucas just isn’t that clever. I say again: stop giving him so much credit.

Also... why is the name 'Darth Tyranus' mentioned only a couple of times? Why is Dooku intent on keeping his real name instead of being known as a 'Darth'?

Maybe for the same reason palps doesnt like to be called supreme chancellor sidious.

[Sagacity]

The Sith are evil and they are out to kill if things don't go their way. Dooku isn't evil, he's too proud to acknowledge the existence of 'good' or 'evil'.

Okay, so all those times Dooku pulled out a lightsaber was a friendly gesture with the intent to do no harm? If he's not evil, why carry it at all? He intentionally threatened the lives to two individuals so he could bail out of a fight he couldn't win. He would have been somewhat less of a gentleman if he simply ran. But he put two injured people in the mix. That's the way of a coward. The way of the Sith.

Why the "Jedi" arts? Because the Sith create nothing, they take everything they have. By their nature they are corrupt, so the Sith way of doing things is a corruption of the Jedi ways.

[Jejef Thgaron]

Okay, so all those times Dooku pulled out a lightsaber was a friendly gesture with the intent to do no harm? If he's not evil, why carry it at all? He intentionally threatened the lives to two individuals so he could bail out of a fight he couldn't win. He would have been somewhat less of a gentleman if he simply ran. But he put two injured people in the mix. That's the way of a coward. The way of the Sith.

Do you know what 'fencing' is? Dooku does. His lightsaber form is based on the principles of the gentleman sport of fencing. He didn't kill Anakin and Obi-Wan. He didn't intend to. He merely used the giant pillar trick to create a diversion that would last long enough for him to escape. He knew Yoda wouldn't allow the pillar to fall on the injured Jedi. Yoda proved how powerful he was to Dooku, so it was a perfect diversion. His intent was never to kill anyone. He has too much respect for Yoda to kill him and Dooku realized this battle could not be won for either side. It was a stalemate. He is not a coward, he is a noble aristocrat. He injured the Jedi, he didn't kill them. As I said, the Sith kill anyone who don't see things their way.

Why the "Jedi" arts? Because the Sith create nothing, they take everything they have. By their nature they are corrupt, so the Sith way of doing things is a corruption of the Jedi ways.

Dooku left the Jedi Order because of corruption in the Order itself. The Jedi do not teach the full power of the Force. The Sith teach powers that some (read: Jedi) would consider to be... unnatural. If Dooku had become a Sith, he would never have spared Yoda's life. He would have immediately killed Anakin and Obi-Wan instead of "Force-pushing" Obi-Wan and chopping Anakin's hand off. He would have taken Palpatine out of the picture.

Asajj Ventress wouldn't have been accepted as an apprentice, neither would Grievous. Neither would Anakin. Remember the rule of two. "There are only two Sith at any given time. One who has power, and one who craves it." Dooku was a Count, so he didn't crave power... he had all the power he wanted. Asajj Ventress craved power. Grievous craved power. Anakin craved power. Darth Maul craved power. Sidious was the one who had power. Dooku was nothing more than an instrument used by Palpatine in order to take control of the galaxy. That's all Asajj, Grievous, and Maul were. Dooku was a pawn and it wasn't realized until Anakin decapitated him.

[Zatoichi]

Can't believe I'm doing this, but here is a quote off of the StarWars Databank page for Count Dooku: But the Jedi didn't realize Dooku's secret. Behind a veneer of elegant charisma and well-tabled political arguments, Dooku had been corrupted by the power of the dark side. After his departure from the Jedi order, Dooku was seduced to the dark side by Darth Sidious, the Dark Lord of the Sith. By Sith tradition, Dooku adopted the name Darth Tyranus and added deceit and treachery to his already formidable array of weapons.

Here is the Link for the page if you want to read the whole entry.

[Jejef Thgaron]

Can't believe I'm doing this, but here is a quote off of the StarWars Databank page for Count Dooku: But the Jedi didn't realize Dooku's secret. Behind a veneer of elegant charisma and well-tabled political arguments, Dooku had been corrupted by the power of the dark side. After his departure from the Jedi order, Dooku was seduced to the dark side by Darth Sidious, the Dark Lord of the Sith. By Sith tradition, Dooku adopted the name Darth Tyranus and added deceit and treachery to his already formidable array of weapons.

Here is the Link for the page if you want to read the whole entry.

I can't believe you think this automatically makes Dooku a Sith Lord. Just because someone is corrupted by the power of the dark side, it does not make them Sith. Could you not tell Anakin was beginning to become corrupted or seduced by the dark side of the Force in AOTC? He wasn't a Sith when he killed all those sandpeople.

By Sith tradition, Dooku adopted the name Darth Tyranus and added deceit and treachery...

So because he "adopted" a Sith name, that means he is a Sith?

Mace Windu developed his own form of lightsaber combat based on the power of the dark side, called Vaapad. Since Mace Windu uses a miniscule amount of dark side powers, does that make Mace Windu a Sith?

Anakin had premonitions of death, pain, and suffering. Was he a Sith when these premonitions came to him?

"Be mindful of the future, but live in the past" is an old Jedi teaching that means the prediction of future events is a path to the dark side that brings about pain and suffering, and that Jedi must live within the confines of their teachings so that the Force may be with them. Anakin didn't understand this because he wanted more power... the nature of the Sith is one of greed.

Count Dooku is not greedy, so he can't be Sith. He may have adopted the name Darth Tyranus, but it's the same thing if I were to call myself a rock star. I'm not a rock star, but I can imitate one. If you watch the Clone Wars animation, Dooku tells Asajj Ventress she is not Sith, and he states, "This can be imitated" when speaking of the Sith.

Ergo, Dooku is implying that he, is in fact 'imitating' a Sith.

[Zatoichi]

Since you enjoy coming up with so many ways to twist things, and obviously did not look at the link, read this. It's from the same exact page.

It was all a ruse: Palpatine was in fact Darth Sidious, and Dooku was his apprentice. But Dooku was unaware of Palpatine's master plan. The kidnapping was a test of a prospective new Sith apprentice. Blazing onto General Grievous' flagship -- the vehicle of escape for Dooku and his "captive" -- were the Jedi heroes Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker. Once again Dooku dueled with the Jedi pair. He bested Kenobi, knocking the Jedi unconscious with a brutal Force push, but was unable to overpower Skywalker. Goading the fiery-tempered young man throughout the duel, Dooku thought he had the upper hand until Anakin outmaneuvered him.

Skywalker severed both of Dooku's hands and snatched the Sith Lord's red-bladed weapon. Dooku fell to his knees before Skywalker, who was now holding two lightsabers at his throat. "Kill him," advised Palpatine -- and Dooku fully realized that treachery was the way of the Sith. He was expendable, Dooku realized. Skywalker was the true prize, the gifted apprentice, the new Sith.

[Jejef Thgaron]

Since you enjoy coming up with so many ways to twist things, and obviously did not look at the link, read this. It's from the same exact page.

It was all a ruse: Palpatine was in fact Darth Sidious, and Dooku was his apprentice. But Dooku was unaware of Palpatine's master plan. The kidnapping was a test of a prospective new Sith apprentice. Blazing onto General Grievous' flagship -- the vehicle of escape for Dooku and his "captive" -- were the Jedi heroes Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker. Once again Dooku dueled with the Jedi pair. He bested Kenobi, knocking the Jedi unconscious with a brutal Force push, but was unable to overpower Skywalker. Goading the fiery-tempered young man throughout the duel, Dooku thought he had the upper hand until Anakin outmaneuvered him.

Skywalker severed both of Dooku's hands and snatched the Sith Lord's red-bladed weapon. Dooku fell to his knees before Skywalker, who was now holding two lightsabers at his throat. "Kill him," advised Palpatine -- and Dooku fully realized that treachery was the way of the Sith. He was expendable, Dooku realized. Skywalker was the true prize, the gifted apprentice, the new Sith.

Dooku never personally claimed to be a Sith Lord. He knew what Palpatine's master plan was, or he wouldn't have been quoted as asking Palpatine for amnesty. Dooku is a rogue Jedi, despite what this "official" Star Wars data bank says. Palpatine's initial plan was for Dooku to surrender to Anakin, and Dooku was willing to bite the bullet. I don't know where the data bank gets its information, but a lot of things I've read there are either inconsistent or misleading. He is only posing as a Sith Lord to draw Anakin closer to the seduction of the dark side. Watch AOTC again to view the scene where Dooku is speaking with a captive Obi-Wan. You'll see that Dooku is not a Sith and is merely fed up with the bureaucracy of the Jedi Order and wanted to go on his own path. He even said Qui-Gon probably would have joined him. And he might have.

[Sailor Abbey]

Dooku never personally claimed to be a Sith Lord.

I dont recall Yoda ever claiming to be a Jedi either. He must not really have been. Of course, my memory is a little fuzzy so I could be mistaken.

[Jejef Thgaron]

One more thing to mention...

It was all a ruse: Palpatine was in fact Darth Sidious, and Dooku was his apprentice.

This first line says it all. A ruse is a clever trick, or a deception. In other words, this sentence says:

"It was all a ruse" - it was a deception or a clever trick.

":" - meaning the following is an explanation of the first part of the sentence.

"Palpatine was in fact Darth Sidious, and Dooku was his apprentice." - meaning this is what the first part of this sentence wants you to believe. You are cleverly tricked into thinking that Dooku was a Sith Lord's apprentice.

I think the trick worked... on some people. Mind tricks usually only work on the weak-minded, though. I don't know why, but I saw through this trick as nothing more than a deception to elude me from the complete truth.

[Zatoichi]

Oh my God, this is ridiculous.

1. Yeah it's official, it's the one from www.starwars.com
2. It's only inconsistant and misleading, because that's what the PT, and all of the EU surrounding it is
3. Just because both Dooku and Palpatine are Sith, doesn't mean they have to work together or play nice with each other. That most certainly isn't what Sith do. What do you think leads the Sith to killing each other most of the time?
4. "The ruse" was of Palpatine being captured to draw in Anakin. It was that both Palpatine and Dooku were Sith Lords, and that each of those two were basically the leaders of each side in the war.
5. Who are you cleverly calling "weak-minded", me or Dooku.

[Gobbler]

Ahh... "ridiculous". Yep, that was the word that I was searching for all the time. Thanks, Mr. Z, you've saved my day.

[Jejef Thgaron]

Oh my God, this is ridiculous.

1. Yeah it's official, it's the one from www.starwars.com
2. It's only inconsistant and misleading, because that's what the PT, and all of the EU surrounding it is
3. Just because both Dooku and Palpatine are Sith, doesn't mean they have to work together or play nice with each other. That most certainly isn't what Sith do. What do you think leads the Sith to killing each other most of the time?
4. "The ruse" was of Palpatine being captured to draw in Anakin. It was that both Palpatine and Dooku were Sith Lords, and that each of those two were basically the leaders of each side in the war.
5. Who are you cleverly calling "weak-minded", me or Dooku.

1. Did I mention the first line of the data bank's entry? Oh, wait... yeah, I did.
2. It's inconsistent because the idea that a Sith Lord would only injure an opponent, rather than killing them, is ridiculous.
3. "There are always two Sith. One who has power, and one who craves it." Dooku didn't crave power. He had no need for it.
4. "The ruse" was also intended to make Anakin and Obi-Wan think that Dooku WAS a Sith Lord. They had no idea Palpatine was a Sith, or Grievous for that matter. Anakin and Obi-Wan bought into it, and it seems a lot of people are STILL buying into the same "ruse".

The very first sentence that you quoted on that data bank entry clarifies it.

"It was all a ruse: Palpatine was in fact Darth Sidious, and Dooku was his apprentice."

Notice the puncuation in this sentence--------> ":"
This makes us ask, "What was all a ruse?"
Palpatine was in fact Darth Sidious, and Dooku was his apprentice <------ this is the ruse.

If you take this statement literally, it means exactly what it says. Dooku was Sidious' Sith apprentice, but it was all a ruse (deception, or clever trick). In other words, it is a deception created to make you think Dooku is a Sith. Dooku is only acting as a Sith apprentice. Remember, the Sith can be "imitated", in Dooku's own words.

5. Hmmm... cleverly pointing out that someone is weak-minded? As in a clever trick or ruse? Naw... not me. I would never do a thing like that.

[barend]

at the very least i think everyone can agre that if arguments like this can exist, that something has been done seriously wrong with the making of the PT...

[Jejef Thgaron]

at the very least i think everyone can agre that if arguments like this can exist, that something has been done seriously wrong with the making of the PT...

... or some people didn't 'seriously' watch the PT. I've heard so many people say, "Oh, I didn't like TPM because of Jar Jar, so the next two movies should suck, too." I hate to recommend this, but watch the whole saga from TPM all the way to the end of ROTJ again. If you still hate it, you still hate it. If so, then go watch your indie films about a bunch of gay cowboys eating pudding.